i think it would work because some of it sounds VERY MUCH like Credence Clearwater Revival.
also sandwiched between Mississippi blues or a rare Johnny Cash number -- book me a gig in Louisiana and i'll show you how the heads will nod
playing smaller venues
- Thread starter zhao
- Start date
i think it would work because some of it sounds VERY MUCH like Credence Clearwater Revival.
also sandwiched between Mississippi blues or a rare Johnny Cash number -- book me a gig in Louisiana and i'll show you how the heads will nod
Tentative Andy
I'm in the Meal Deal
Whoa, I go out for the night and this thread has gone mad.
Can't speak for everyone, but when I was suggesting the old rave tunes, I was very careful to only pick very obvious tunes that would either be well-known outside of the harcore massive or would have characteristics that would appeal outside even if they weren't. They were then all confirmed by Droid, by all accounts an experienced DJ, as being tunes that do indeed go over well in a bar context.
As others have been saying, you have to remember that a lot of these tunes were in the charts, and generally it's become a cultural period that people have a lot of nostalgia for even if they didn't live through it. Obviously it's at least in part a British thing, and may not communicate so well elsewhere, but it's not fair to say these tunes will only appeal to a handful of obsessive ageing ravers. Also, no-one has been saying that all kinds of other music couldn't go down well in a bar. People were just talking about the ardcore for a while 'cause it was interesting.
The question of what sort of context/audience we all have in mind is an interesting one. Personally, as the original topic was phrased in terms of 'bars' rather than 'pubs' I was immediately put in mind of the somewhat faceless/generic bars you see all across town and city centres. These places quite often employ DJs, especially at weekends when they tend to open a bit later than your average pub, usually having them play popular stuff at a volume that people can still talk over. The clientele at these places is quite mixed; you might get a few people who in some form or other could be considered as trendy/scenester-ish, people who are musically hip and into checking all the options available, but the majority of the audience would probably be quite ordinary people. often working-class but interested in dressing up a bit and going somewhere nice for the weekend.
The downside, if you consider it thus, to such an audience would be that your selection would have to be quite populist, things with immediate impact and an overall fun vibe. The upside is that you wouldn't be tied to any one demographic, and therefore not to any one musical style either (compare this to clubs where even the most mainstream places will advertise nights as specialising in r & b, chart, house etc.). I see Slothrop has pretty much said all this better than me upthread, so I'm going to stop now.
EDIT: Big up padraig for the new subtitle, hahahahaha.
Can't speak for everyone, but when I was suggesting the old rave tunes, I was very careful to only pick very obvious tunes that would either be well-known outside of the harcore massive or would have characteristics that would appeal outside even if they weren't. They were then all confirmed by Droid, by all accounts an experienced DJ, as being tunes that do indeed go over well in a bar context.
As others have been saying, you have to remember that a lot of these tunes were in the charts, and generally it's become a cultural period that people have a lot of nostalgia for even if they didn't live through it. Obviously it's at least in part a British thing, and may not communicate so well elsewhere, but it's not fair to say these tunes will only appeal to a handful of obsessive ageing ravers. Also, no-one has been saying that all kinds of other music couldn't go down well in a bar. People were just talking about the ardcore for a while 'cause it was interesting.
The question of what sort of context/audience we all have in mind is an interesting one. Personally, as the original topic was phrased in terms of 'bars' rather than 'pubs' I was immediately put in mind of the somewhat faceless/generic bars you see all across town and city centres. These places quite often employ DJs, especially at weekends when they tend to open a bit later than your average pub, usually having them play popular stuff at a volume that people can still talk over. The clientele at these places is quite mixed; you might get a few people who in some form or other could be considered as trendy/scenester-ish, people who are musically hip and into checking all the options available, but the majority of the audience would probably be quite ordinary people. often working-class but interested in dressing up a bit and going somewhere nice for the weekend.
The downside, if you consider it thus, to such an audience would be that your selection would have to be quite populist, things with immediate impact and an overall fun vibe. The upside is that you wouldn't be tied to any one demographic, and therefore not to any one musical style either (compare this to clubs where even the most mainstream places will advertise nights as specialising in r & b, chart, house etc.). I see Slothrop has pretty much said all this better than me upthread, so I'm going to stop now.
EDIT: Big up padraig for the new subtitle, hahahahaha.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
oh christ Zhao. no offense but you are a far, far (like 5 million miles far) from Jared Diamond. or even Martin Bernal. you're a dude leaving garbled comments on the Internet, not a scholar. please do not insinuate that your views hold anywhere near the same kind of weight.
for the last time - no is saying that, has said that, will say that. what I'm saying is that you are no more qualified to be a self-proclaimed judge of what is & is not more universal than anyone else. the issue is YOU, not the music.
and that's exactly my point. it's not the worst thing in the world either. what's aggravating is that you think that is somehow makes your view exempt from flaws. there is nothing any better or worse about spending your while life exploring one tree.
why do I get the feeling that you're just trying to convince us of how enormous your DJ cock is?
*EDIT* and tbc I think there is generally -something- to what you're saying w/for example the deeper (that is, not obvious) connections btwn say CCR & certain strains of African music. unfortunately as is your wont you've mixed up a good & interesting idea with a bunch of standoffish arrogant shite such that it's hard to extricate the one from the other.
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that's exactly what this thread is about. things that both appeal to a "generic" audience as well as much more interesting than the usual fodder.
my views on history are directly derivative of scholars like this. and my ideas come from their work. so i never insinuated anything you think i did.
um...
hello?
well i have my ideas on what is more universal. and to talk about these ideas and put them into practice is OK?
that's a valid philosophy. there are obviously amazing artists who only live and breathe the particular cultural sphere that they inhabit, with no attention paid to anything outside of that. perfectly fine. it is just my personal philosophy that a life in music exploring all time periods and locations is more rewarding, enriching and interesting than provincialism (especially if you are a dj). but that's just me.
realize that i come on strong, which is related to the post colonial axe i grind, in opposition to what i see as narrow minded Euro-centrism. glad you are able to at least partially separate what you see as "arrogance" and a few worthwhile ideas that i express...
since you bring it up: when i said to my German friends in LA that i want to move to Berlin and dj, they were all very negative, saying things like "there are so many djs in Berlin that you will never get any gigs as a no name outsider". and now I will be playing Fusion Fest, the biggest dance fest in Germany, 2 years in a roll. so yeah, i do have a nice dj cock and know how to use it, both on a big stage and in small dive bars.
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UFO over easy
online mahjong
and then there are grooves and melodies universally irresistible, by people from all walks of life.
apart from 'overweight aussie mothers in bad trainers' presumably...
my statement is obviously not without limits. but yes, i think something in my set can possibly appeal to these too. maybe "mother's little helper"?
but when they are shopping for pie it's hard to win them over...
UFO over easy
online mahjong
im actually quite shocked by all this
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
you asked - is JB as universal as darkside jungle? my answer is - anything is universal. trying to come up with some kind of "universal" playlist is itself the antithesis of universal. no one but you is making any qualitative judgements..
also "universal" & eclectic are two different, separate things.
yeah, "provincialism", right
. of course you're so worldly.I don't mind that you come on strong, if you have strong convictions then voice 'em. I don't mind that you're "abrasive" - the issue is not touchy sensibilities.
I do take issue with you setting yourself up as a champion of post-colonial axes grinding them against a bunch of clueless Eurocentrists as we scoff down at you speaking truth to power. Which would be fine if it were true, but plainly it is not. Especially since I & I suspect many if not all Dissensus regulars are quite sympathetic to most post-colonial axes. Perhaps even moreso than you. So please, stop hauling out that line "You're a Eurocentrist!" every time someone disagrees with you. It's an ad hominem attack & a convenient dodge.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
also, Zhao - I'll tell you, every time I get into a discussion w/ya I feel like I'm discoursing w/an intelligent, opinionated dude - but - a lot of it has this very abstract sense. I find some of your more militant deeper roots/Africa/post-colonial stuff a bit hard to take coming, yunno, from a bit of a chic Berlin creative class type (no offense & by all means correct me if I'm wrong). having a bit of hands-on experience with some of those post-colonies you mention.
on tother hand if we were debating Spectralism or graphic design or whatever I would of course bow down to your expertise.
on tother hand if we were debating Spectralism or graphic design or whatever I would of course bow down to your expertise.
slackk
-
Tell the truth Zhao, you just wanted everyone to pat you on the back and congratulate your indepth musical knowledge.
If I was on the piss on a Friday night and you banged all this out I'd walk away, quite frankly. Maybe it's a different mentality where I'm from and wherever you're from but I'd just think you were a self-indulgent music nerd as opposed to a DJ who knew how to work a crowd.
If I was on the piss on a Friday night and you banged all this out I'd walk away, quite frankly. Maybe it's a different mentality where I'm from and wherever you're from but I'd just think you were a self-indulgent music nerd as opposed to a DJ who knew how to work a crowd.
reeltoreel
Well-known member
i think UFO is taking the piss about being shocked (he means the opposite) what about you
and if i tasted your linguini in clam sauce with asparagus i would think you were a mediocre amateur chef who don't know how to make good ingredients work for you.
get me?
i've never tasted your cooking so how the fuck would i know what you can do in the kitchen?
come down to berlin dude and see for your self how i "don't know how to work a crowd". i'll put you on the damn guest list. or Paris later this summer or Holland in September. PM me if you're going to be in any of those places.
UFO over easy
online mahjong
i'm not
reeltoreel
Well-known member
I'm definitely quite shocked.
Mexico is incredibly diverse and knowledgeable about music cultures from around the world. i know Argentinians crazy about minimal techno. i have friends in China who are obsessive about Arabic and Indian Classical. "appreciating global music" is not a "western" thing, it is an "access" thing, and a "privilege" thing. and i will not apologize for having that privilege, because i fucking worked for it, and did not inherit a single penny.
do know what you're saying about indigenous cultures and provinciality being the "natural" way to be. but that's not my reality, and i'm going to make the best i can of mine.
i will be playing the ZXZW fest in Holland alongside Wayne Wax, ZZK, Rupture, etc. but in Limburg, not the Dam - weekend of September 19th. specific date and venue are yet to be determined. check my myspace or drop me a line close to it and i will put you on the list.
bring some linguini.
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Yea I sort of doubled back on that really, though you're right it probably is more of a access/privelege thing and less strictly 'western' (all though the fascination is alot more common) my sis's partner is Mexican and is really into UK punk and I've spoken to family members who are into all sorts. Was going to change it and decided the post wasn't really that relevent to what was being discussed so I deleted it.
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Apologies for what I just realized is sort of a long post!
I think I can see where Zhao is coming from in the sense of creating this musical journey through a dj mix. This is something I try when building a set, and I presume many of the other djs here do this as well. It's one of the main reasons one wants to be a dj in the first place, innit?
Sure, there are some bars that this approach might fall flat... some people do really just want to hear the sounds they know. However, I'd hazard that most people are more open minded than you might expect.
I'd also bet that most crowds would appreciate being exposed to new music in an interesting way. I think context goes a long way when dropping in your more recherche selections: if you've laid out a pathway to the music in question, it'll make a lot more sense to the people listening.
If you get people's attention early on, chances are they'll stay with you as their night goes on and you start navigating the corridors of your mix. Also, people are drinking/going out for a toke, and as things get more surreal for them so can the music.
Basically, the venue wants to make money from the crowd, the crowd wants to have a good time and the dj wants to play good music. I don't think these goals are at all mutually exclusive.
You can almost lay it out as a question of ZFI (Zone of Fruitless Intensification). So on one side you've got the dj as a jukebox, and on the other you have the dj in his own world playing only what he wants to hear (just thought of Prince playing Darling Nicky on stage in Purple Rain). While both have their place, I think the place to be is in between, oscillating like a sine wave between the two extremes (but not getting too close to either).
I think this is where you get things like Ron Hardy, Acid Tracks, all of that. You want to please the crowd, but sometimes you want to break new/unknown sounds that you know people are gonna dig. So you play Acid Tracks three times in one night!
I think I can see where Zhao is coming from in the sense of creating this musical journey through a dj mix. This is something I try when building a set, and I presume many of the other djs here do this as well. It's one of the main reasons one wants to be a dj in the first place, innit?
Sure, there are some bars that this approach might fall flat... some people do really just want to hear the sounds they know. However, I'd hazard that most people are more open minded than you might expect.
I'd also bet that most crowds would appreciate being exposed to new music in an interesting way. I think context goes a long way when dropping in your more recherche selections: if you've laid out a pathway to the music in question, it'll make a lot more sense to the people listening.
If you get people's attention early on, chances are they'll stay with you as their night goes on and you start navigating the corridors of your mix. Also, people are drinking/going out for a toke, and as things get more surreal for them so can the music.
Basically, the venue wants to make money from the crowd, the crowd wants to have a good time and the dj wants to play good music. I don't think these goals are at all mutually exclusive.
You can almost lay it out as a question of ZFI (Zone of Fruitless Intensification). So on one side you've got the dj as a jukebox, and on the other you have the dj in his own world playing only what he wants to hear (just thought of Prince playing Darling Nicky on stage in Purple Rain). While both have their place, I think the place to be is in between, oscillating like a sine wave between the two extremes (but not getting too close to either).
I think this is where you get things like Ron Hardy, Acid Tracks, all of that. You want to please the crowd, but sometimes you want to break new/unknown sounds that you know people are gonna dig. So you play Acid Tracks three times in one night!