luka

Well-known member
not heard of Dana Ward but having checked it out...

the un-embittered empathy your voice conveyed
on YouTube
which is our loving cup
the solution of butter
& DMT you took
anally that really made you
freak the fuck out
& your friends just stood there
watching you

I'll just leave it there i think!
 

version

Well-known member
ppo make fun of Ben Lerner, but 10:04 is still the best book of the decade, and its opening pages are some of the best prose & evocative idea-work I've ever encountered.
He reminds me of Franzen in the way people respond to him. Something about him just seems to provoke a visceral hatred in people.
 

sus

Moderator
Don't love the first 4 lines but yeah, the second half of the excerpt is great, b/c dana swings between highfalutin and giving it to you straight, it's part of what makes him graet
 

sus

Moderator
He reminds me of Franzen in the way people respond to him. Something about him just seems to provoke a visceral hatred in people.

white men putting out serious work is always the target of ironycore peanutgalleries
 

sus

Moderator
Franzen is correctly rated (strong novelist with inconsistent forays into brilliance)

Lerner is probs slightly underrated, or at least, 10:04 is; Atocha Station and his newest are just fine.

But has anyone here actually read 10:04? I'll excerpt the first page
 

sus

Moderator
A particular kind of white guy maybe. People I've seen ripping Lerner, Franzen and Wallace were fine with Pynchon, DeLillo and others.

different generation; is "retrolegitimation" as someone I forget who called it
 

sus

Moderator
once you get over a certain hump of contemporaneity you stop getting made fun of

see: 2000s indie rock/folk in about 15-20 years
see: 80s music the last two decades
 

sus

Moderator
people start taking your existence as part of the landscape, rather than as a competitive bid for recognition
 

sus

Moderator
fr the first page:

10:04 said:
The city had converted an elevated length of abandoned railway spur into an aerial greenway and the agent and I were walking south along it in the unseasonable warmth after an outrageously expensive celebratory meal in Chelsea that included baby octopuses the chef had literally massaged to death. We had ingested the impossibly tender things entire, the first intact head I had ever consumed, let alone of an animal that decorates its lair, has been observed at complicated play. We walked south among the dimly gleaming disused rails and carefully placed stands of sumac and smoke bush until we reached that part of the High Line where a cut has been made into the deck and wooden steps descend several layers below the structure; the lowest level is fitted with upright windows overlooking Tenth Avenue to form a kind of amphitheater where you can sit and watch the traffic. We sat and watched the traffic and I am kidding and I am not kidding when I say that I intuited an alien intelligence, felt subject to a succession of images, sensations, memories, and affects that did not, properly speaking, belong to me: the ability to perceive polarized light; a conflation of taste and touch as salt was rubbed into the suction cups; a terror localized in my extremities, bypassing the brain completely. I was saying these things out loud to the agent, who was inhaling and exhaling smoke, and we were laughing.
 
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luka

Well-known member
i just dont think that 'serious novelliest' pose is really accessible for young Americans. any attempt to occupy it is going to look ridiculous. Pynchon got away with it by the simple expedient of not being serious.
 

luka

Well-known member
my opinion is that is terrible writing. unseasonable outrageously celebratory literally impossibly

no one with an ear is going to accept this.
 

luka

Well-known member
there is no sense of control, no cutting ege, no energy. it's leaning on superlatives. it's vague. there's no tension it's all slack and puffy.
 

version

Well-known member
To me, it reads like something you'd find on McSweeney's. Maybe I'll give him a go at some point, but can't say it's grabbing me.
 

version

Well-known member
Is this sincere or is he taking the piss?

“So this is how it works, I said to myself, as if I’d caught an ideological mechanism in flagrante delicto: you let a young man committed to anticapitalist struggle shower in the overpriced apartment that you rent and, while making a meal you prepare to eat in common, your thoughts lead you inexorably to the desire to reproduce your own genetic material within some version of a bourgeois household, that almost caricatural transvaluation of values lubricated by wine and song. Your gesture of briefly placing a tiny part of the domestic–your bathroom–into the commons leads you to redescribe the possibility of collective politics as the private drama of the family. All of this in the time it took to prepare an Andean chenopod. What you need to do is harness the self-love you are hypostasizing as offspring, as the next generation of you, and let it branch out horizontally into the possibility of a transpersonal revolutionary subject in the present and co-construct a world in which moments can be something other than the elements of profit.”
 

sus

Moderator
he's doing strong defamiliarization with a half-serious literary tone & the rhythm's on-point, I'm not sure what there is to complain about @luka but if you wanna get specific

Mel Mudkiper said:
Ben Lerner fucking sucks
He once described crying as "a lacrimal event"

Why would he do this??? So weird, right??? Definitely autistic. Or maybe like, he's trying to put an emotional distance between himself and what his body is doing? "Crying" won't get you there, but a lacrimal event, that's something that happens to you. Crying's something you do. This is part of his larger project of defamiliarization, in the Russian formalist sense, so that something so overworn as a good cry can be seen anew, in different light.
 
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