But what makes you think this is anywhere near to being attempted Rich? It’s up there with EU supporting aliens invading us in UFOs and seizing control.I mean maybe it wouldn't work... but seeing as January is gonna be disastrous I would suggest it's worth a go to try and prevent a kind of perfect storm of Breixt and Covid.
Yeah no worries. So it won’t be reversed any time soon. Which means we have to live with it I’m afraid. It is the new normal.Oh sorry, not it's not being attempted at all, I'm saying it should be.
That's a bit of a cop out though, isn't it? Surely there's more than one way to keep plugging away? I'm not convinced the only options are give up or keep working under the pretense there are no mistakes to be learned from. How do you do anything differently if you never collectively assess the mistakes of the past?Well in fact it goes back to the 70s. So you can either give up on people or keep plugging away I guess. Obviously the first of those options is far easier.
I have my fantasy that they ask for a delay, you know extend the transition period, as they were being advised when it was legally possible... and then then the delay - they are perfectly correct on this point - does raise questions like "Maybe we could get out of this clusterfuck after all?" and so on but not with BJ in control obviously.Yeah no worries. So it won’t be reversed any time soon. Which means we have to live with it I’m afraid. It is the new normal.
I think it depends on the context. In my experience when you talk to people about the state of their hospital or their estate being privatised or whatever they are generally interested in the things that directly affect them. They are mainly less interested in elevating the conversation to a discussion about local government funding. It is quite rare to then develop the conversation into the turn to neoliberalism in the 1970s or the tendency of the rate of profit to fall.That's a bit of a cop out though, isn't it? Surely there's more than one way to keep plugging away? I'm not convinced the only options are give up or keep working under the pretense there are no mistakes to be learned from. How do you do anything differently if you never collectively assess the mistakes of the past?
Well, their hospital won't improve and their estates will keep being privatised until they take an interest in those things, so how do you get them to?I think it depends on the context. In my experience when you talk to people about the state of their hospital or their estate being privatised or whatever they are generally interested in the things that directly affect them. They are mainly less interested in elevating the conversation to a discussion about local government funding. It is quite rare to then develop the conversation into the turn to neoliberalism in the 1970s or the tendency of the rate of profit to fall.
My suspicion is that if you start off by berating people about their life choices they are less likely to listen to you. I could be wrong about this but I am unwilling to test it out. The general tone of debate on Twitter seems to support this thesis though.
I agree that it it's 'important', but it's also irrelevant because it's never going to happen for as long as millions of voters are happy to eat shit off a spoon and swear it's Nutella because Saint Boris delivered their Holy Brexit.Well I feel we have done this one.
But for the record it is important that leavers, remainers and everyone unite to fight the vicious attacks on our standard of living that will be attempted by our rulers in the wake of Brexit and the pandemic on top of climate change and the slow decline of the capitalist mode of production.
As usual there will be attempts to split people along various cultural and ethnic lines to stop a united defence against these attacks.
One of these will be leave/remain. So people can choose to keep arguing about that, a battle which has already been decided. Or they can fight the new battle. But not both if they want to be effective.
Well do you think they were right? (Rhetorical question - obviously you don't think they were right, because you're an intelligent and well-informed person.) So I assume you think they were wrong. But then how are you any different from all those awful smug liberal Remoaners who think Leavers just need to be told, in no uncertain terms, how wrong they are?Well some people felt that Brexit would make their lives better. So they want their lives to be better.
Shush, you.You called him a (bien) peasant
I up the bumBut what makes you think this is anywhere near to being attempted Rich? It’s up there with EU supporting aliens invading us in UFOs and seizing control.
Thank you for this useful post.I up the bum
I don’t think so no. Farage would love to make everything about Brexit forever. He has little to say about anything else. If we move the conversation into other areas he becomes less relevant. You’re left with mental UKIP types who want to bring back smoking in workplaces or ban gay marriage or whatever.Surely you have to mention Brexit in order to steer them away from Farage and the Tories?
Well if the vast majority of people in this country are weird sadists then obviously organising for progressive politics is very hard and organising for fascism is very easy.Well do you think they were right? (Rhetorical question - obviously you don't think they were right, because you're an intelligent and well-informed person.) So I assume you think they were wrong. But then how are you any different from all those awful smug liberal Remoaners who think Leavers just need to be told, in no uncertain terms, how wrong they are?
An alternative formulation of the problem might say that many Leave voters were under no illusion that their lives would get any better, and may even have accepted from the start that they would suffer a decline in living standards, as long as immigrants suffered more than they did, and as long as it pissed off people who've been to university and read The Guardian.
I think one of the reasons this country keeps having Tory governments is that a large number of voters are happy to be slapped in the face if it means they can watch someone else get kicked in the bollocks. You could see this is the popular support for austerity before anyone had heard of Brexit.