Election 2020
Leo
Well-known member
it's all fun and games until they're dragged into court and reality slaps them in the face.
people eventually start to realize they've been played by the con man-in-chief who conveniently encourages others to do the stuff that gets them in trouble and ruins their reputations. trump talks crazy, but doesn't actually do the crazy. he (somehow) convinces others to do the dirty work.
people eventually start to realize they've been played by the con man-in-chief who conveniently encourages others to do the stuff that gets them in trouble and ruins their reputations. trump talks crazy, but doesn't actually do the crazy. he (somehow) convinces others to do the dirty work.
IdleRich
IdleRich
It still just blows my mind that there are people who even now see Powell, Wood etc as heroes, who believe that there is loads of evidence that the election was fraudulent and that these fools have it but were somehow prevented from producing it.
Powell (in particular) is always bragging about how she never backs down, how she will take Dominion "to the mat" and she always does it in this authoritative voice that makes it sound as though she knows what she is talking about and is confident that she will be proven correct - which is what makes her abject performance in court such a hilarious contrast. She and Wood are claiming that the other wrote the bullshit, far from backing it to the hilt they ate distancing themselves as fast as possible. So how do her supporters reconcile this with her persona? It's like if there was a boxer who gave it the big one all the time between matches and claimed he was invincible, but in every fight he just ran away and begged for mercy, crying and pleading not to be hit.... and yet his fans watch every match and still think he's great.
And more than that, this is revealing not just the weakness of their filing, but it's highlighting the total lack of evidence - the judge is repeatedly asking how much they checked the evidence that the cases were based on, if they investigated the integrity of the witnesses, whether what they said made sense or was possible or had any bearing on the case or if it had already been debunked in another case or by some other means, and what we are seeing again and again and again is that none of them checked any of the evidence that they tried to submit and build their cases on at all. Not at all. If anyone came up to them and said "I think there was fraud because...." they just grabbed it without waiting to hear the rest and stuck it in their case. Totally ludicrous.
Like if someone came up to them and said "Normally all the votes are kept in a safe in building X over night as part of the Michigan voting process and this time that didn't happen cos the votes were left in the counting room" they would go "Great, stick it int" and then it turns out that that guy was a total loony who just made it up and there is no procedure like that in Michigan and never has been - and they haven't even fucking checked. It is crazy.
Powell (in particular) is always bragging about how she never backs down, how she will take Dominion "to the mat" and she always does it in this authoritative voice that makes it sound as though she knows what she is talking about and is confident that she will be proven correct - which is what makes her abject performance in court such a hilarious contrast. She and Wood are claiming that the other wrote the bullshit, far from backing it to the hilt they ate distancing themselves as fast as possible. So how do her supporters reconcile this with her persona? It's like if there was a boxer who gave it the big one all the time between matches and claimed he was invincible, but in every fight he just ran away and begged for mercy, crying and pleading not to be hit.... and yet his fans watch every match and still think he's great.
And more than that, this is revealing not just the weakness of their filing, but it's highlighting the total lack of evidence - the judge is repeatedly asking how much they checked the evidence that the cases were based on, if they investigated the integrity of the witnesses, whether what they said made sense or was possible or had any bearing on the case or if it had already been debunked in another case or by some other means, and what we are seeing again and again and again is that none of them checked any of the evidence that they tried to submit and build their cases on at all. Not at all. If anyone came up to them and said "I think there was fraud because...." they just grabbed it without waiting to hear the rest and stuck it in their case. Totally ludicrous.
Like if someone came up to them and said "Normally all the votes are kept in a safe in building X over night as part of the Michigan voting process and this time that didn't happen cos the votes were left in the counting room" they would go "Great, stick it int" and then it turns out that that guy was a total loony who just made it up and there is no procedure like that in Michigan and never has been - and they haven't even fucking checked. It is crazy.
IdleRich
IdleRich
I mean I know it's all crazy already and now it's crazy on top of crazy on top of crazy. But even by the standards of everything that has gone before it seems particularly super crazy. I guess that is why I find it all so fascinating, there is no bottom, every day they find a new way to be dumber and madder and a load of people go along with it and ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT. Which I'm pretty sure Powell and co never did, that's obviously why they never checked the evidence at all, they knew that it would absolutely fall apart under the slightest bit of scrutiny, to use it they had to completely avoid touching it like some kind of super fragile piece of ancient tapestry that would fall apart in your hands if you touched it.
Leo
Well-known member
not all (or perhaps, even most) of them are stupid. they're delusional. those kinds of people dig in their heels when confronted with facts that contradict their delusion, even if deep down inside they know they are wrong. it's all about not backing down and admitting they are wrong, and they will probably never change regardless of what evidence is presented. it makes no difference if they are proven wrong or seen by others as crazy fools.
IdleRich
IdleRich
This is it yeah. The interest for me is now way beyond politics, it's a perfect example of those things you read about how using facts and powerful logical arguments are not effective ways of convincing people to change their minds.
I wonder about what you say there about "deep down inside they know they are wrong" - I really don't know, I see a lot of people saying "Come on, everyone knows that Trump won really" and I am never sure if that person is saying what they really truly believe or if they are simply trying to convince themselves.
But there is so much here for psychologists or whatever. You have the cult of Trump - the question of why so many people are so willing to get so caught up in worshipping this man who embodies the literal opposite of virtually all the qualities they profess to admire. And not just the plebs, why are so many famous people with successful careers willing to ruin themselves for him? How much of all this stuff is genuine and how much is due to being swept up in a crowd? Are there people who want out but don't dare admit that to their community? Is it one of those things where if one does say it outloud then the whole thing comes tumbling down cos they were all thinking it? Or is it deeper than that with the bonds that are holding people in being more personal, the simple fact of having to admit that you have been so wrong for so long, is so unthinkable that you simply cannot allow yourself to falter.
I think a mixture of all of the above and much more of course. But I wouldn't be surprised if one day there is that kind of total collapse I just descried, but it's certainly a long way off at the moment.
And then of course there is the psychology of Trump himself. Another separate and equally crazy topic. Why does he lie all the time? Does he believe his own lies? Why does he want to be president? Does he think he is the messiah and so on and so on.....
I wonder about what you say there about "deep down inside they know they are wrong" - I really don't know, I see a lot of people saying "Come on, everyone knows that Trump won really" and I am never sure if that person is saying what they really truly believe or if they are simply trying to convince themselves.
But there is so much here for psychologists or whatever. You have the cult of Trump - the question of why so many people are so willing to get so caught up in worshipping this man who embodies the literal opposite of virtually all the qualities they profess to admire. And not just the plebs, why are so many famous people with successful careers willing to ruin themselves for him? How much of all this stuff is genuine and how much is due to being swept up in a crowd? Are there people who want out but don't dare admit that to their community? Is it one of those things where if one does say it outloud then the whole thing comes tumbling down cos they were all thinking it? Or is it deeper than that with the bonds that are holding people in being more personal, the simple fact of having to admit that you have been so wrong for so long, is so unthinkable that you simply cannot allow yourself to falter.
I think a mixture of all of the above and much more of course. But I wouldn't be surprised if one day there is that kind of total collapse I just descried, but it's certainly a long way off at the moment.
And then of course there is the psychology of Trump himself. Another separate and equally crazy topic. Why does he lie all the time? Does he believe his own lies? Why does he want to be president? Does he think he is the messiah and so on and so on.....
IdleRich
IdleRich
But what I never understand is why would people want to be in a cult built around this personality
Well, I get that often there are people - psychos I suppose - who have all these traits which sound horrible on paper, but when you read about cult leaders such as Manson or whoever were also charming and charismatic. Trump seems to be a bit like that but without any of the things that made people like or want to follow them. And yet... I mean, money helps, and Russia working to get you in power I suppose but the insane obedience and love stuff I still don't get.
Anyway, more evidence the Russians wanted him in power
www.theguardian.com
Well, I get that often there are people - psychos I suppose - who have all these traits which sound horrible on paper, but when you read about cult leaders such as Manson or whoever were also charming and charismatic. Trump seems to be a bit like that but without any of the things that made people like or want to follow them. And yet... I mean, money helps, and Russia working to get you in power I suppose but the insane obedience and love stuff I still don't get.
Anyway, more evidence the Russians wanted him in power
The person to ‘weaken’ America: what the Kremlin papers said about Trump
Documents appear to show how Russian intelligence worked to install their preferred candidate as president
www.theguardian.com
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Well this just goes to show how deeply embedded the Guardian is in the conspiracy to make us all think there was a Russian conspiracy to install Trump as POTUS - right, @luka? 😉The person to ‘weaken’ America: what the Kremlin papers said about Trump
Documents appear to show how Russian intelligence worked to install their preferred candidate as president
I did see some stuff yesterday suggesting that those new documents might be questionable, can't remember where though. It's in the specifics of the language and the report - if you read the piece closely they don't say what the source, is, if it's been verified by intelligence agencies etc.
luka
Well-known member
you dont have to read it closely, that flimsiness is the first thing that jumps out at you. its laughable.
But you're just the same mate, only with a contrary view.