The Metaverse

[woops]

whereas for us every work day is POETS day, Pubs Opening Ends The Shift

 

[woops]

x-post A.C.R.O.S.T.I.C.S. thread

 

[Clinamenic]

I'm afraid the last page of dialogue simply isn't jargony enough for this thread. Might I suggest relocating to "What Is This Thread Going To Be About Woops?" or maybe "Things Craner Will Love"?.

 

[woops]

I'm afraid the last page of dialogue simply isn't jargony enough for this thread. Might I suggest relocating to "What Is This Thread Going To Be About Woops?" or maybe "Things Craner Will Love"?.

don't go all @WebEschatology on us stan

 

[woops]

haven't i just explained a highly specialised piece of workplace terminology?

 

[Clinamenic]

Fair enough, as you were.

 

[vimothy]

he got Stan and Toko to admit cryto is build for scams and nothing more and even that they are useful idiots! who would have thought our vim would hit his prime deep into his forties

just turned 40, thank yo\u

 

[vimothy]

It’s not easy for us to audit the bank and prove the bank actually has the money that it claims to have. Most of the time, the reputation-based systems work fine. But occasionally, we have catastrophic events–think of the 2008 financial crisis, or the Bernie Madoff financial scandal. These circumstances would have been avoided if the financial institutions could have been continuously audited for their solvency.With blockchains and cryptocurrencies, we now have tools that allow us to maintain computational integrity without the opaque systems of reputation. We no longer have to trust a central authority–we can verify computational integrity with math."

so in other words, computational integrity means that the banks DB is public?

 

[vimothy]

this is wrong. the market for the securities were opaque, and our reputation based rating agencies failed us. The opaqueness meant that we had no idea what kind of liabilities firms owed each other. but on defi, liabilites and risk are A) managed programmatically and B) publicly verifiable. Notice how computational integrity and a shared data layer are what allow these desirable properties.

crypto is obviously equally opaque - that's one of its defining characteristics

 

[toko]

so in other words, computational integrity means that the banks DB is public?

not really, the quote i think conflates public data layer and computational integrity. if the adding and subtracting of balances can be shown to be consistent with the state of the db before, i.e a valid state transition we have computational integrity.

 

[toko]

there are ways of achieving computational integrity without public auditable db (zero knowledge proofs) but the point is that the combination of both would mean liabilities are transparent and are handled in an automated fashion.

 

[toko]

In terms of cost, it's pretty much deducible by first principles. Marginal cost for protocols tend towards zero, and since they are open source rent extracted tends towards zero.

also this is wrong now that i think about it. me and stan discussed this on discord but only rents tends towards zero, there are expansive fees/ cost necessary for the service that do not approach zero. so in uniswaps case, the cost is the fees given to liquidity providers. these do not approach zero and in fact an area of defi that should be reduced via more efficient means but will always be present.

 

[Clinamenic]

there are ways of achieving computational integrity without public auditable db (zero knowledge proofs) but the point is that the combination of both would mean liabilities are transparent and are handled in an automated fashion.

Yeah and falsifying database history is prohibitively expensive in something like Bitcoin, and that is the crux of its security.

I'm excited to learn more about zk proofs and what they can do. Almost seems miraculous, the kind of reconciliation it may enable, namely the verifiable transmission of derivative data of sensitive data, without needing to transmit said sensitive data directly, if I understand.

 

[vimothy]

ok, so somewhat public?

 

[vimothy]

I'm struggling to understand the advantages otherwise

 

[toko]

crypto is obviously equally opaque - that's one of its defining characteristics

I agree its not as legible, that is to say not easy for the layman to understand whats going on. but anyone could learn some basics of how it works and figure it out.

 

[vimothy]

equally true for CDOs, surely

 

[toko]

ok, so somewhat public?

how should i say this, if the db was public, and any changes to the db were only "valid" changes i.e conforming to some predetermined rules, then we could have avoided 2008. computational integrity corresponds to the second.

 

[vimothy]

but why would the DB be public in the first place? and why would we know what the valid state changes were?

 

[toko]

equally true for CDOs, surely

no, many CDO's and synthetic CDO's were made between private parties, the information was much much harder to get. Now anyone with a network connection and some code can in principle read the liabilities off of the blockchain. Plus, you can also create dashboards to update the data in real time.