Is this the end of the Reagan/Rove right?

nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
vimothy said:
When I was at uni one of my mates did her dissertation on evangelical worship as 'rave'.
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You can really see the parallels if you look at pentecostal churches and their emphasis on "praise & worship" as a sort of altered-state experience.
 
IdleRich

IdleRich

IdleRich
"Check it out, James Dobson of Focus on the Family's vision of what will come after the Reagan/Rove right:"
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He protests a lot about homosexuality doesn't he?
I hope he's right with these bits:

"there are hardly any evangelical teachers in public schools any more."
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"In addition, many private Christian schools decided to shut down"
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"Christian parents seeking to adopt have tried going through secular adoption agencies, but they are increasingly excluding parents with “narrow” or dangerous views on religion or homosexuality"
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"Now states can no longer require parental involvement for minors who wish to have an abortion, or any waiting period, or any informed consent rules, or anyrestrictions on late-term abortions"
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"It is now illegal for private citizens to own guns for self defense in eight states, and the number is growing with increasing Democratic control of state legislatures and governorships"
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"President Obama fulfilled his campaign promise and began regular withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq, completing it in the promised 16 months"
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"The new Congress under President Obama passed a nationalized “single provider” health care system, in which the U.S. government is now the provider of all health care in the United States, following the pattern of nationalized medicine the United Kingdom and Canada. The great benefit is that medical care is now free for everyone"
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"once he took office he followed the consistent pattern of the Democratic Party and the pattern of his own past record and asked Congress for a large tax increase. He explained that the deficit had grown so large under President Bush, and the needs of the nation were so great, that we simply couldn’t afford to cut taxes at the present time."
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"Obama’s tax bill still included “tax credits” for the lowest 40% of earners, who were said to “need the most help.” Since the bottom 40% were not paying any Federal income taxes in the first place, these “tax cuts” were actually a gigantic redistribution of income, a huge welfare payment, a way to “spread the wealth around"
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"The Justice Department soon began to file criminal and civil charges of various sorts against nearly every high Bush administration official who had any involvement with the Iraq war."
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I can't get my head around this guy. I'd love to meet him, how can it be that so many things which to me seem self-evidently are things which to him are self-evidently wrong? He must be the anti-IdleRich, maybe together we would make a whole person.
I quite enjoyed this article a couple of days ago from Monbiot, nothing new in it really but I was struck by his vehemence, eg

"One theme is both familiar and clear: religion - in particular fundamentalist religion - makes you stupid."
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/28/us-education-election-obama-bush-mccain
 
hucks

hucks

Your Message Here
IdleRich said:
I can't get my head around this guy. I'd love to meet him, how can it be that so many things which to me seem self-evidently are things which to him are self-evidently wrong? He must be the anti-IdleRich, maybe together we would make a whole person.
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Wouldn't you kill each other, like matter and anti matter?

I don't get the opposition to "spreading the wealth around" from a Christian perspective. I thought Christ's teachings were all about being kind to the poor and stuff. I grew up in a pretty solid Catholic family, Catholic schools etc, and as much as I don't have any faith or go to church any more, it was a much more agreeable belief system that this kind of monstrosity.
 
nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
hucks said:
Wouldn't you kill each other, like matter and anti matter?

I don't get the opposition to "spreading the wealth around" from a Christian perspective. I thought Christ's teachings were all about being kind to the poor and stuff. I grew up in a pretty solid Catholic family, Catholic schools etc, and as much as I don't have any faith or go to church any more, it was a much more agreeable belief system that this kind of monstrosity.
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I know, Hucks. I've flown that one up the flagpole at my parents and they really usually have no answer. My mom usually just says "well, you're right."

My other favorite thing to say to Christian conservatives is "It's easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven..."

IdleRich: I know!! When I was reading Dobson's version of the apocalypse, I kept thinking "this is kind of like my ideal America". One of my favorite parts is where Dobson does that slick conflation Christians love so much where homosexual automatically equals pedophile. Ehhh? Nothing could be further from the truth. The vast majority of pedophiles identify as "straight." Even pedos who prefer little boys often practice heterosexuality when they're not online downloading porn.
 
D

dubble-u-c

Dorkus Maximus
America should take a chance and make Barack Obama the next leader of the free world

http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displayStory.cfm?story_id=12516666&source=features_box1
20081101issuecovUS400.jpg


http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displayStory.cfm?story_id=12516666&source=features_box1
 
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droid

Guest
Given that the exit polls in 2004 were completely wrong for the first time in US electoral history, all this talk of the 'Wilder' effect is quite worrying. Its a ready made excuse for the Reps.

Hopefully these measures will prevent some of the worst excesses of fraud.

Watchdogs warn of voting fiasco in battleground states

COUNTING DOWN to an election day expected to draw record turnout, voting-rights watchdogs are sounding the alarm that a repeat of the Florida fiasco of 2000 could occur in any of a dozen battleground states.

Voting-rights advocates in Colorado, for example, told a federal judge on Wednesday that almost 30,000 voters were recently purged in violation of federal voting-rights law and should be restored in time for voting.

Lawsuits are already flying in many states. The two presidential campaigns are also preparing to deal with lawsuits over the outcome by joining lawyers from non-profit groups who are fanning out by the thousands to monitor the polls. The Barack Obama campaign is expected to send 5,000 lawyer volunteers to Florida alone.

The Obama campaign, Cable News Network (CNN) and the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law have set up hotlines, with CNN fielding more than 15,000 calls since October 15th....

More:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2008/1031/1225321589568.html
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nomadthethird

nomadthethird

more issues than Time mag
I fucking love Obama for beating Rove at his own game without even having to pull a Rove and fix the election. It's brilliant.

I kept saying when Kerry was running that until we dredge up a democrat who will effectively put target marketing, viral marketing, the internet general, and all those other 21st century methods to his good use (the way Bush did to win both times), dems didn't stand a chance.

And I expected democrats to step up and meet this challenge this year, but I never expected one to pull it off without using the flipside of the Rove-tactic coin, the mud-slinging down-and-dirty smear campaign. Obama has stood fast on the moral high ground while handily out fundraising, out ad-buying, out groundgaming McCain by a gargantuan margin. It's great fun to watch.

The Palin appointment is such a wonderful placeholder in McCain's campaign for the symbolic inefficiency of conservative ideology post-9/11.

I wonder what will become of Fox News..they don't seem like they appreciate being cheerleaders for our new underdogs, do they?
 
C

crackerjack

Well-known member
nomadthesecond said:
I fucking love Obama for beating Rove at his own game without even having to pull a Rove and fix the election. It's brilliant.

I kept saying when Kerry was running that until we dredge up a democrat who will effectively put target marketing, viral marketing, the internet general, and all those other 21st century methods to his good use (the way Bush did to win both times), dems didn't stand a chance.
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Is this also the rehabilitation of Howard Dean? Crap candidate, fantastic chairman (or whatever his official position is).

I wonder what will become of Fox News..they don't seem like they appreciate being cheerleaders for our new underdogs, do they?
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One outpost of the Murdoch empire has gone for the O.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article5063102.ece

no surprise there - Rupe's policy has generally been to hold finger to wind and make like he's been blowing that way all the time. Choosing Obama in the UK is a no-brainer. What are his American papers doing? I know NY Post went for McC (right after Vanity Fair published a piece on Murdoch's new liberalism). I assume he has others...
 
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crackerjack

Well-known member
I don't care about motor racing, but for a second there i thought Hamilton was going to lose. And all I could think about was this mixed-race youngster who's led all year all & everyone wants to win, suddenly pipped at the death. Thank fuck for that.
 
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droid

Guest
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Republicans would need an electoral tsunami to win - but it's still possible

What if John McCain does snatch victory, as is still mathematically possible, asks Michael Tomasky

SO AS we reach the finish line: John McCain's pollster declares himself satisfied that the race is functionally tied in the important states; Barack Obama says "we're winning"; while liberals across the US speak fretfully in the subjunctive tense, daring not to tempt fate by saying anything like "when Obama is president".

Are the liberal caution and the McCain quasi-optimism actually warranted? Is there any way the Republican could still win this thing? The answer mathematically is. . . yes, he could. And it needn't even hinge on eking out a win in Pennsylvania.

Consider the following electoral-college permutations. Obama wins all the states John Kerry won in 2004, for 252 electoral votes, along with Iowa and New Mexico, two states where he appears to be comfortably ahead and would add 12 to his total for 264 (270 is needed to win). But suppose it stops there and every other battleground state tumbles toward McCain - Ohio and Florida, where Obama's leads are fairly narrow, but also Virginia and Colorado, where his leads are larger but not insurmountable. These are, after all, states that are long accustomed to backing the Republican candidate. In this scenario, McCain wins 274-264.

Let's go it one better. Say McCain does manage a victory in Pennsylvania, where his campaign is circulating fliers comparing him to Hillary Clinton, that seductress of the state's oft-limned blue-collar voters. If he did snare that state's 21 electoral votes, McCain could then afford to lose Virginia (13) and Colorado (nine). Still holding Ohio, Florida etc, he would win 273-265.

Let's try one final scenario. Pennsylvania ends up in the Obama column, as does Colorado. But McCain's pollster has recently spoken of mysterious "internal numbers" showing Iowa (seven votes) to be somewhat up for grabs. So an electoral cocktail that includes Iowa and Virginia but not Pennsylvania or Colorado would give McCain 272 electoral votes and the presidency.

Though mathematically possible, how likely are any of these scenarios? Throughout this election, I've relied most regularly on the websites RealClearPolitics and fivethirtyeight.com for polling averages, so let's see what they have to say about the margins in these states as of yesterday. In Pennsylvania, both have Obama ahead by 9.8 per cent. Making up 10 per cent in four days would be a remarkable feat, though not unheard of. Obama is six points ahead in Virginia and Colorado, and has an 11 per cent lead in Iowa. Now let's recall that all the above scenarios are possible only if McCain wins Ohio. In what we call the Buckeye state, the websites have Obama ahead by about 5 per cent. McCain doesn't have a lead in any major poll in any of these states. He would truly need a tsunami to hit that would shift the race in his direction by five to 10 points in the final days - a swing very nearly without precedent.

But still, Obama supporters' emotional continuum runs from cautious to outright neurotic. As the days dwindle down to a precious few, as Kurt Weill put it, caution is well-advised. But neurosis would seem to be an indulgence. It's a good thing that the candidate himself doesn't suffer from it. - (Guardian service)

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2008/1101/1225321622406.html
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droid

Guest
:slanted:

Of course I want him to win, but regardless of whether he wins or not, the issue of electoral fraud is still crucial - something you seem happy to ignore whilst munching your popcorn.

The question is, does he have a big enough lead in the swing states to offset GOP shenanigans?
 
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