Incident at FWD>> - What happened?

Paul Hotflush said:

We'll see how the attendences go, Martin.

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Sorry Paul but i'm going to have to go with Martin on this one..

The last FWD (Birthday Bash) was the busiest I've ever seen FWD at Plastic People. And I believe a lot of the audience was there on the strength that they saw Riko and Geeneus on the flyer, aswell as DJ Tubby of Newham Generals.

Anyone who's been to FWD over the last few months will know if a crew's DJ is booked, you're likely to see the emcees as well.

For me, adding more grime to FWD's roster will open it out to a much wider audience. We're getting a nice influx of girls too.

FWD has always been a great place to hear new music, but when I started playing there I had to switch up my styles quite a lot as grime was still not fully accepted there - hence the production of tracks like Death By Stereo, Industrial Graft, Pump Up The Jam, Camel Ride.

I produced those tracks because at the time I was first booked to play at FWD, most of the grime I was playing on the radio was way too vocal or simple for the FWD crowd. I knew if I went to FWD and played my regular set, it would be badly recieved by a large percentage of the audience.

The point i'm trying to make is that in 2003 when I first played at FWD, the audience was not open to all styles of music being played there, and if it wasn't breaks or dubstep they really weren't interested. Grime is a much more diverse sound than Dubstep, and it has opened the ears of many FWD goers and producers alike.

Some of the best dubstep tracks of recent times have been influenced by grime. Check out Request Line. It's nice to hear some mid-range back in the forefront of dubstep production, it was starting to get so muddy and boring until DMZ popped up in the scene and made every dubstep producer check themselves.

Right, but if what I hear is true, at the 4th Birthday everyone left after Geeneus played. That's not quite what Forward was supposed to be about is it?

So now you get Grime for a bit, and then when the dubstep comes on, half the club leaves. Great.

I'm all for grime influencing dubstep, Request Line is a wicked tune. And I'm all for dubstep DJs playing more varied sets (which I've been saying for years). But it's not clever trying to transplant one scene straight into another.

Badmarsh said:

Bigup Plastic badboy producer and u kno!

We got a new version of knowledge remix for ya pal. done and dusted, if u want

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Is it by Vex'd ? If so - I got two mixes off Jamie on a CD @ DMZ.

If not then hook me up!

Paul - yeh I can see what you're saying about people leaving etc.

But I think that is down to the fact that recently, before grime acts were getting booked, when FWD went fortnightly you would have 2 events a month which were both half full - these are your regular FWD goers who are deciding which night to go to in each month.

At the birthday bash you had your regular FWD heads who turn up for the likes of Youngsta and Hatcha, and then you had the rest of the club full of FWD newbies there to hear some grime. When Geeneus finished, these people left, leaving the FWD regulars to stay on to catch Youngsta and Hatcha.

When playing at FWD I have always found that people tend to start leaving after the middle set anyway, because they have work in the morning or they need to catch the last train or something. Geeneus' set finished at around about the time the 3rd set would normally start on any other FWD event - so you were bound to lose a few people anyway.

Maybe if grime DJs thought about tayloring their sets a bit (like you did) we wouldn't be having this discussion.

NB - you've probably got he finished mixes if Jamie gave them to you then.

Paul Hotflush said:

Maybe if grime DJs thought about tayloring their sets a bit (like you did) we wouldn't be having this discussion.

NB - you've probably got he finished mixes if Jamie gave them to you then.

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You're correct, but...

I don't feel playing at FWD should mean you have to tailor your set - it should be about new music, no matter what it is. If Sarah books you to DJ at FWD she should be booking you to play YOUR set, not a set you think the FWD goers might like.

In 2003 they would have hated me if I came and dropped all my Alias and Wiley beats. But now I think the crowd is much more respectful of the DJ's selection.

On the whole - FWD has changed my style of grime selection a lot. This could be a good thing as I'm getting a whole lot of bookings right now, but on the other hand it means I get about 100,000 references to my style of music as dubstep every month. And this is not what I play.

I play the odd DMZ, Benga or Skream beat from the genre, but I don't produce it at all!

Views on what fits into a particular genre differ wildly. Some people call some of the breakier stuff we release dubstep. I guess DMZ fit into the category best, but there are overlaps. I would place what you play more as grime, but quite a lot of your beats sound more like electro to me. I don't there's much point trying to get deeper into genres and sub-genres though, though Blackdown might be happy to oblige...

Re: Djing at Forward - as a DJ you are always obliged to take the crowd into account. Not everyone does this, of course.

Yeh I think you hit it on the head. Although I'm not influenced by electro, some of the stuff does bear resemblence.

I've never been influenced by dub reggae and i'm pretty certain my stuff sounds nothing like Horsepower or DMZ.

personally, when i go to fwd>> i find the dubstep draws my energy, not because i dont like it. because i do. its just soooo bass heavy it just wears me out. also the sets sound like one long record as the basslines in some sets ive heard dont really have much variation. just pure sub bass. its nice but for your normal grime/underground beats listener, its tough on the ol' shells

Pearsall said:

get tae fuck, pal

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al smash ma botla ginga n yer heed ya wee fuckin ned

nine said:

al smash ma botla ginga n yer heed ya wee fuckin ned

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ahm gonnie chib yis, ya fannie

glasgegrime, now there's a thought

Paul Hotflush said:

Happily, London isn't as segregated as that

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hope i didn't suggest new york is segregated???

it's the least segregated of american cities

and though there's lots of irish-owned and -operated bars, most attract very diverse crowds -- i.e., mission is not "irish" in the sense that most of the clientele is irish -- quite the contrary -- merely the management is irish -- though some of the irish late night spots tend to be pretty heavily uk (and never get busted by cops b/c the cops are still irish controlled)

but lower manhattan is incredibly diverse -- along all lines -- no segregation here (errr, though you can find many "yuppie" establishment, or all-white rock'n'roll joints, i suppose)

as for ethnic enclaves in the outer boroughs -- i suppose you could call that segregation -- but it's more a case of voluntary patterns of settlement (errrr, post 1960)

i.e., bed-stuy was the largest black ghetto in the united states for many years, going back to the late 20s -- and yes, that *was* by official design

and the high number of italians in south brooklyn was *also* by official design

but most russian settlement in south brooklyn is post-1980 and the pattern of settlement was voluntary

Dominic, dunno if you ever saw either of these blog postings of mine about segregation in Brooklyn?

http://onepearsallandhisbooks.blogspot.com/2005/06/racial-segregation-in-brooklyn.html

http://onepearsallandhisbooks.blogspot.com/2005/07/more-brooklyn-demographic-stuff.html

Re: The actual incident at FWD>>

As you might have guessed it was between Pearsall and Kode9. No one else was able to understand what the dispute was about, but it appeared to be an isolated matter between two individuals. Clearly the issue hasn't been fully resolved but, recognizing the potential for pointless escalation, members of the online community have made an effort not to "hype" (ie: exacerbate) the dispute.

Case closed.

As Plasticman says it was late when Youngsta came on...like 2am or something on a week night ffs. It did empty out a bit but so what, it was still busier than at 1:30am on a normal fwd night.

Anyway why should people tailor their sets - it makes for such medicore middle of the road music, you see it all the time in drum and bass. Play 'you' always.

Logos said:

Anyway why should people tailor their sets - it makes for such medicore middle of the road music, you see it all the time in drum and bass. Play 'you' always.

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It might lead to middle of the road music in some situations, however it can also lead to hours of self indulgent wank, while the crowd stand around scratching their heads. As a DJ you have to take your audience into account. If you don't then you're a cunt.

Paul Hotflush said:

It might lead to middle of the road music in some situations, however it can also lead to hours of self indulgent wank, while the crowd stand around scratching their heads. As a DJ you have to take your audience into account. If you don't then you're a cunt.

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yep, i've seen promoters pull djs from the decks when that happens. "educating the crowd" should always come after entertaining them first.