Dancehall Autopsy

luka

luka

Well-known member
barty you got to map this decline out with a powerpoint presentation and 100 youtube embeds. droid i want compare and contrast rap and dancehall videos tracing lines of influence. you lot are lazy. if it was my thesis i would have written 10,000 words by now.
(sadmanbarty tracks playlist
Simon Reynolds
1 / 35)
 
S

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
CORP$EY said:
i never trusted this thread tbh barty makes these sort of outrageous statements every day just to shake things up a bit

like saying simon reynolds was a better rapper than rakim the other day e.g.
Click to expand...

in order to speak a deeper truth, sometimes you have to say something that's almost completely wrong.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
corpsey treading softly around the thread like its some sort of trap, poking it with a twig, throwing a pebble at it underarm
 
droid

droid

Well-known member
Key moments in the 'decline' of dancehall.

1998: Get to the point - Sizzla goes slack. Roots Revival begins fizzles out.
2000: Release of the first Greensleeves riddim LP
2001: Tanto Metro and Devonte's “Give It To Her" first major JA auto tune hit.
2003: Kartel takes such a lyrical beating from Ninja at Sting he has to send his mates in to throw some digs.
2003: Bounty forms Alliance with Movado, kartel, Signal and others, new generation begins takeover
2006: Sonic Sounds vinyl pressing plant shuts down
2006: Kartel splits with Bounty over D'angel affair
2006: Badman Forward Badman pull up!
2006: Dutty Wine released, string loops and snares replace bass.
2008: I'm On The Rock released, Movado wins MOBO
2009: Ramping Shop hits number 1, Kartel and the empire ascendant
2010: Poocaan breakthrough after guesting on Clarks
2010: Tuff Gong vinyl pressing plant shuts down. No vinyl pressing left in Jamaica
2012: Kartel sentenced to 35 years. Dancehall bookings in the UK & US begin significant decline...
 
S

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
luka said:
barty you got to map this decline out with a powerpoint presentation and 100 youtube embeds.
Click to expand...

i assume we have a consensus about dancehall from sleng teng till about 2004 (unless droid's going to point out something obscure and say it was invented by mungo jerry in 1974 or something). there was a new sound every 2 or 3 years, it was constantly exciting and it influenced uk dance music, timbaland/pharell era rap and rnb, etc.

then there's the daseca/ not nice era where i think people would correctly point out the the michael bay soundtrack style string sections aren't particularly pioneering (although i do love them). then autotune arrives.

my opinion:

The paradigm shift I was talking about in that context was the liberal use of autotune and what that can achieve. Dancehall started using it a lot around 2008 or 2009. To me a track like, for example, Merital’s 'Mi Yard’ was a part of this shock-of-the-new moment insofar as a human voice was transformed into a kind of afrofuturist pungi. It certainly didn’t sound derivative. Things like Black Rhino’s 'Whine Up Yuh Body’, ‘ Popcaan’s 'My War’, Busy Signal’s ‘mi Love Money’, etc. were all coming out around the same time, so it was all very exciting and forward looking. Also in the dances all the tracks were pitched up, producing a slight chipmunk effect which further transformed the voices; they sounded more like intercepted alien transmissions than songs. Kartel had a great run of these auto-tune tracks (so long as you can stomach the relentless homophobia) with tracks like Nah, Something go happen, dollar sign, weh dat fa, gwan so, Cake Soap, etc. An artist called Alkaline came a few years later with tracks like ‘Scumbag’, ‘Obeah’ and ‘Ready’ which were in a similar vein. The chorus to his song ‘Bruk Out’ is interestingly post-human in that there’s a bubbly sound and it’s hard to tell whether a synthesiser’s making the sound or if it's echoes of him saying the word ‘bruk’.
Click to expand...

reynolds response:

http://energyflashbysimonreynolds.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/paradigm-shifty.html

during this period the production gets more like trance or something which, again, i wouldn't say's particularly innovative, however you are getting a lot of these nasally, infantile artists which i think's interesting; it's a complete 180 from your bounty killer's, etc.

after 5 or 6 years this era hasn't ended. it's just perpetuating. no more innovation.

also there was a terrible trend after 'everything nice' was an international hit, where everyone was doing that sort of thing. it was a good 2 or 3 years of everyone giving it a go.
 
S

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
droid said:
Key moments in the 'decline' of dancehall.

1998: Get to the point - Sizzla goes slack. Roots Revival begins fizzles out.
2000: Release of the first Greensleeves riddim LP
2001: Tanto Metro and Devonte's “Give It To Her" first major JA auto tune hit.
2003: Kartel takes such a lyrical beating from Ninja at Sting he has to send his mates in to throw some digs.
2003: Bounty forms Alliance with Movado, kartel, Signal and others, new generation begins takeover
2008: I'm On The Rock released, Movado wins MOBO
2009: Ramping Shop hits number 1, Kartel and the empire ascendant
2010: Poocaan breakthrough after guesting on Clarks
2010: Tuff Gong vinyl pressing plant shuts down. No vinyl pressing left in Jamaica
Click to expand...

old man opinions
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
sizzla goes slack and jah vengence comes down upon him and his voice is fucked for good.
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
The Greensleeves riddim albums were the beginning of quantity over quality for sure, but here are a few additions/footnotes.

1. Some of them like Diwali were amazing and heralded some new experimentation with riddims which had been sadly missing for ages. As well as pretty great vocal performances in the main.

2. Dancehall had ALWAYS suffered from terrible quality control in many instances - pick up a late 90s or early noughties seven inch at random and it is likely to be quite bad. (Someone told me that it was because some labels were just money laundering operations - dunno about that).

3. Those double albums also really popularised dancehall to a new audience of DJs because they were so fun to mix with.

4. Also the covers were great.

5. Weirdly you would think this mania for version pon version on the same riddim would multiply in the digital age but it doesn't seem to have done? Why is that?
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
Also Sizzla was still doing roots tunes in the noughties, no?

In early dancehall you always had artists doing a gun tune, a god tune, a ganja tune, a girl tune.

And roots does not equal good music or innovation either. Just look at the first page of the Dub Vendor website right now. It's all:

Jah Freddy "The Lion" (Roots Subway 10")
Angry Lion "Ackee Selassie" (Rasta Pyramid 7")
Ras Tristan "Bible Pon Mi Stovetop" (Shadrach Mountain LP)
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
And roots does not equal good music or innovation either.
Click to expand...

usually the exact opposite. saccharine. but that sizzla led bobo wave was special for a couple of years.
 
droid

droid

Well-known member
First wave of dancehall 1978-1985: Roots radics, Junjo, Echo, Yellowman slackness, rise of the deejay etc.
Second wave 1984-1988: Tempo, Sleng Teng, Digikal, Firehouse, Jammy's, Steelie & Cleevie, digital roots, golden age of live soundsystem - singers alongside deejays etc.
Third wave 1989-1995: Ragga! Punanny, Ninja, Shabba, Butterfly, Bogle, Madhouse, Minimal 808 heavy production style, US penetration, Golden age of soundclash, runs alongside roots revival, Silk, Rebel, Luciano Sizzla, Digital B, ends with Pepperseed
4th Wave 1995-2003: Baritone ascendent, slicker less ramshackle production, Ward 21, Bounty, Beenie, Rise of the deejay crew, ends with Kartel/Ninja clash
 
droid

droid

Well-known member
john eden said:
The Greensleeves riddim albums were the beginning of quantity over quality for sure, but here are a few additions/footnotes.

1. Some of them like Diwali were amazing and heralded some new experimentation with riddims which had been sadly missing for ages. As well as pretty great vocal performances in the main.

2. Dancehall had ALWAYS suffered from terrible quality control in many instances - pick up a late 90s or early noughties seven inch at random and it is likely to be quite bad. (Someone told me that it was because some labels were just money laundering operations - dunno about that).

3. Those double albums also really popularised dancehall to a new audience of DJs because they were so fun to mix with.

4. Also the covers were great.

5. Weirdly you would think this mania for version pon version on the same riddim would multiply in the digital age but it doesn't seem to have done? Why is that?
Click to expand...

Loads of them were good, and there were 1 riddim LPs before that, but I think they represented a streamlining of the production line, 40+ tunes on one riddim, the next LP out 2 weeks after the last one, a consolidation of production and a very quick and easy way to push new deejays who previously may have had to struggle for quite a while to gain exposure.
 
droid

droid

Well-known member
john eden said:
Also Sizzla was still doing roots tunes in the noughties, no?
Click to expand...

98 was when he first went slack with his forced falsetto growl. He stayed on that tip for a couple of years and has vacillated between roots and slackness ever since. Pump up her pussy being the nadir of the latter.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
4th Wave 1995-2003: Baritone ascendent, slicker less ramshackle production, Ward 21, Bounty, Beenie, Rise of the deejay crew, ends with Kartel/Ninja clash
Click to expand...

worst period. with the crews. monster shack, scare dem, hasnt aged well. red rat, sounds a bit annoying. after them is elephant man era, mr vegas. lots of great commerical stuff. classic period.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top