Hades Presents: MJ vs. Prince

MJ vs. Prince

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
Corpsey

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
baboon2004 said:
Is there any sense in which this divide reflects the Jackson/Prince divide in a more modern context? I can't quite work it out.
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It's a similar divide for me—pop songs that cut to my emotional core vs. eccentric genius, where the impulse (for me) is more to admire than swoon

Obvs it's not as simple as that cos the Neptunes made a lot of really weird shit too.
 
B

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
luka said:
It's intriguing isn't it, that distance and artificiality. Version, Corpsey, Barty, have all said it represents a barrier they just can't get over. Prevents any connection at all. But in that thread we did about the '80s this was a recurring theme, this distance and this artificiality and the sadness of it, throughout the gamut of popular music.
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It is. There's something about the obliqueness of emotional expression, emotional expression through its apparent opposite, which strikes a chord or erects a barrier. For me the distance is as necessary to pop music as false selves are necessary for all of us to get through life. I don't live in a world of directness, and so I want/need art to reflect that.
 
C

catalog

Well-known member
luka said:
"America used to dominate us like a Lee Marvin sadist: it had no need of running interference from the emotions. Now it's gotten this "Don't you see I have to, because it was done to me" rap, and wants our wounded puppy tears. It wants pity, not awe. It used to be that you kept it zipped: now we have a "feminised" space of confession. It used to be that America's crucified heroes stalked Death Valleys and New Frontiers. Now they work in electronic space, blip time, sealed inside the soundbite, the video and the Vanity Fair cover."

More from baboons kpunk link
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Reading this is a very similar reading experience to some of yours or Barty's recent music related posts
 
B

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
Corpsey said:
It's a similar divide for me—pop songs that cut to my emotional core vs. eccentric genius, where the impulse (for me) is more to admire than swoon

Obvs it's not as simple as that cos the Neptunes made a lot of really weird shit too.
Click to expand...

That's interesting, and sometimes it's almost explicit - Timbaland covered When Doves Cry, and the Neptunes reassembled Justin Timberlake as Michael Jackson in a pop warehouse.

And yet there's something about the Jackson sound at certain points that really recalls and presages Timbaland, as Luka/Barty pointed out upthread. The turn-on-a-dime tension.
 
Corpsey

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I think people in this thread pointed out how the Neptunes and Timbaland are both following in Prince's footsteps, how Clipse e.g. is almost pastiche rap music. But personally I find that Timbaland's stuff is more strange and almost parodic than the Neptunes. There's a sort of tongue-in-cheek humour to stuff like 'Pony' or 'Beep my 911'.

I wonder if there's something in them both coming from out-of-the-way places (for the music industry) - Minneapolis and Virginia.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
baboon2004 said:
It is. There's something about the obliqueness of emotional expression, emotional expression through its apparent opposite, which strikes a chord or erects a barrier. For me the distance is as necessary to pop music as false selves are necessary for all of us to get through life. I don't live in a world of directness, and so I want/need art to reflect that.
Click to expand...

https://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=14542&highlight=Prince


This is the Prince thread I keep referring to. I thought it was started by Corpsey but it was version.
 
C

catalog

Well-known member
I'm a bit hazy on the creation of dissensus. Was it k punks idea? Or woebots? Or both? Were you here from the start? Sorry if you can't be bothered with this. It's not really that important tbh
 
Corpsey

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
baboon2004 said:
That's interesting, and sometimes it's almost explicit - Timbaland covered When Doves Cry, and the Neptunes reassembled Justin Timberlake as Michael Jackson in a pop warehouse.

And yet there's something about the Jackson sound at certain points that really recalls and presages Timbaland, as Luka/Barty pointed out upthread. The turn-on-a-dime tension.
Click to expand...

That's true - also the vocal tics that Jacko did, compare those to Timbaland's use of his voice in beats (the beatboxing, etc.) and the staccato flurries of hi-hat etc. Something jerky and semi-robotic, like MJ's dancing.
 
C

catalog

Well-known member
But yeah, that kind of staccato, aggressive analysis of something intangible. Music and I suppose 'culture' for want of a better word.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
catalog said:
I'm a bit hazy on the creation of dissensus. Was it k punks idea? Or woebots? Or both? Were you here from the start? Sorry if you can't be bothered with this. It's not really that important tbh
Click to expand...

They came up with it together. Which is probably why it quite quickly devolved into civil war. They both brought different crowds with them.
 
droid

droid

Well-known member
It actually took a while for it to devolve into civil war, though there was tension from the start.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
The drum sounds and patterns in the neptunes are more prince, more Jackson in timbaland.

But it's not clear cut. You have to force the whole thing a little bit.
 
B

baboon2004

Darned cockwombles.
After the Potter Payper discussion on the Chaka Khan poll thread, made me think of this. It speaks well to emotional directness too.

 
pattycakes_

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
luka said:
It's intriguing isn't it, that distance and artificiality. Version, Corpsey, Barty, have all said it represents a barrier they just can't get over. Prevents any connection at all. But in that thread we did about the '80s this was a recurring theme, this distance and this artificiality and the sadness of it, throughout the gamut of popular music.
Click to expand...

It's kind of the same space occupied by dematerialisation and all the blog wave music of the 2010s. Pastel pixels, plastic pastoria. Losing your sense of self in a world that's getting away from you. That's how I imagine it must have felt to be a young adult in the 80s.
 
droid

droid

Well-known member
I had to vote MJ. Never a prince fan, though I have admired him from afar. Cognisant of MJ's appalling descent into horror though, so my preference is tainted.
 
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