Jordan Peterson thinks it makes sense to compare humans with lobsters

version

Well-known member
The thing with Peterson is he positions himself as an authority, tells people to get their shit together before trying to change the world and then turns out to be a complete mess himself and trying to change the world well before he's sorted himself out. He's a hypocrite who doesn't subscribe to his own advice. He says one of his rules for life is be precise in your speech then either lies or exaggerates to an absurd degree when discussing not being able to sleep and later goes on to say he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about after claiming it was sulphites in the cider which caused it.

The guy's supposed to be a serious academic, a university professor and clinical psychologist, for fuck's sake.
 

version

Well-known member
I can't think of any, although that might be because there's more of them so nobody really stands out in the same way. With that lot, they mostly seem to be journalists working for NYT, The Guardian etc or people exist almost entirely on Twitter. I guess AOC could be one?
 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
The thing with Peterson is he positions himself as an authority, tells people to get their shit together before trying to change the world and then turns out to be a complete mess himself and trying to change the world well before he's sorted himself out.

As I said on the last page, he deals with all types of shit 24/7. Shit that would have you hiding under your blankets. And yet he keeps trying to push through. But obviously the guy is sensitive and susceptible to it all. Who wouldn't be? He's constantly being picked away at on a daily basis. It has severe effects over time and so he turned to the pills evidently. And yes, he is of course flawed and maybe contradicted himself. But let's let he who's without contradiction cast the first stone here. From my pov, you're a crab in the basket here, version. The guy is trying. And he's inspiring people to try to better themselves. He happens to be flawed and he sometimes owns up to those flaws. What do you want? Jesus?

The guy's supposed to be a serious academic, a university professor and clinical psychologist, for fuck's sake.

Yes. And a human being. And at least he is being.
 

version

Well-known member
As I said on the last page, he deals with all types of shit 24/7. Shit that would have you hiding under your blankets. And yet he keeps trying to push through. But obviously the guy is sensitive and susceptible to it all. Who wouldn't be? He's constantly being picked away at on a daily basis. It has severe effects over time and so he turned to the pills evidently. And yes, he is of course flawed and maybe contradicted himself. But let's let he who's without contradiction cast the first stone here. From my pov, you're a crab in the basket here, version. The guy is trying. And he's inspiring people to try to better themselves. He happens to be flawed and he sometimes owns up to those flaws. What do you want? Jesus?

How do you know he had these issues after he became a public figure? Also, there's a difference between all of us contradicting ourselves from time to time and hawking a model for life to millions of people whilst doing it. As for this "he who's without contradiction" bollocks, by that logic nobody can ever criticise anything and Peterson shouldn't be criticising the people on the left he goes after, or anyone else for that matter.
 

chava

Well-known member
The thing with Peterson is he positions himself as an authority, tells people to get their shit together before trying to change the world and then turns out to be a complete mess himself and trying to change the world well before he's sorted himself out. He's a hypocrite who doesn't subscribe to his own advice.

But he doesn't try to change the world top down. He quit his political ambitions a long time ago
 

version

Well-known member
He wouldn't be publishing things, doing public speaking events etc if that was the case (... unless he's stopped doing those things?). To be clear, I'm not saying it's bad to try to change things whilst struggling yourself. I'm saying it's bad to tell other people not to when that's exactly what you're doing. Nobody ever really has it fully together, we all struggle with things. There's never going to be that perfect point where you're done with yourself and can finally look to the world. And the world is part of the problem anyway. You can't work on systemic issues whilst thinking only of yourself.
 

chava

Well-known member
He's not that strict. Just take a (his) personality test then you know where you stand and you're good to go
 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
How do you know he had these issues after he became a public figure?

For one, from watching his older talks when he appeared to be much more together. Then add to that his personal archetype, how fame affects people, working, travelling, stress etc. It makes plenty of sense to me. But yeah, I don't know. And neither do you but it seems as if you would rather err on the side of caution. Strikes me as a tad hysteric tbh.


Also, there's a difference between all of us contradicting ourselves from time to time and hawking a model for life to millions of people whilst doing it.

Like I said, he's trying. At least someone bothered in this time of utter chaos, lost souls and scorched horizons.


As for this "he who's without contradiction" bollocks, by that logic nobody can ever criticise anything and Peterson shouldn't be criticising the people on the left he goes after, or anyone else for that matter.

I never said you can't criticise him. I'm just putting across the other side of the coin from my pov. And I'd wager that by your logic we'd have even less people taking the Peterson leadership position and therefore even more people in need of someone to do so.

I'm not saying it's bad to try to change things whilst struggling yourself. I'm saying it's bad to tell other people not to when that's exactly what you're doing.

I disagree. I think in these desperate times, I'd rather have a flawed work in progress hitting the bumps, picking himself up, dusting himself down and learning from his mistakes in real time. That way we can trust that he is a human being and not some prepackaged TV dinner of a man saying the right things all the time. Gimme the warts.
 

droid

Well-known member
As I said on the last page, he deals with all types of shit 24/7. Shit that would have you hiding under your blankets. And yet he keeps trying to push through. But obviously the guy is sensitive and susceptible to it all. Who wouldn't be? He's constantly being picked away at on a daily basis. It has severe effects over time and so he turned to the pills evidently. And yes, he is of course flawed and maybe contradicted himself. But let's let he who's without contradiction cast the first stone here. From my pov, you're a crab in the basket here, version. The guy is trying. And he's inspiring people to try to better themselves. He happens to be flawed and he sometimes owns up to those flaws. What do you want? Jesus?



Yes. And a human being. And at least he is being.

lol, so an academic who manufactured a fake free speech crisis in order to gain notoriety and grift the alt right streaming dollar, transmuted this into a repackaged reactionary self help racket, flirted repeatedly with the right and neo fascists and spreads demonstrably false and damaging bullshit about virtually every important political issue is 'flawed' and deserving of sympathy when his hypocrisy is exposed?

Cry me a fucking river. There's millions of people round the world who come from much more difficult circumstance and sacrifice their minds, bodies and souls to help others. Peterson aint even on the radar.
 

version

Well-known member
For one, from watching his older talks when he appeared to be much more together. Then add to that his personal archetype, how fame affects people, working, travelling, stress etc. It makes plenty of sense to me. But yeah, I don't know. And neither do you but it seems as if you would rather err on the side of caution. Strikes me as a tad hysteric tbh.

That's a fair point. Maybe you're right.

Like I said, he's trying. At least someone bothered in this time of utter chaos, lost souls and scorched horizons.

I'm not knocking him for trying. I'm knocking him for telling others not to.

I never said you can't criticise him. I'm just putting across the other side of the coin from my pov. And I'd wager that by your logic we'd have even less people taking the Peterson leadership position and therefore even more people in need of someone to do so.

You haven't actually read what I've been saying then. My logic is that nobody's ever gonna be completely sorted, so telling them to get their own house in order before trying to do anything outside of it would result in nobody ever doing anything outside their own house. You're gonna get a lot more people taking leadership positions if they're allowed to have their own problems whilst trying to do something bigger.

I disagree. I think in these desperate times, I'd rather have a flawed work in progress hitting the bumps, picking himself up, dusting himself down and learning from his mistakes in real time. That way we can trust that he is a human being and not some prepackaged TV dinner of a man saying the right things all the time. Gimme the warts.

What are you disagreeing with here? That's literally what I said. That nobody's perfect, so it's ridiculous for him to tell others to get their house in order before trying to do anything else. Depending on your view on climate change, we don't really have time to wait for billions of people to get their houses in order before bothering to do anything collectively.
 

pattycakes_

Can turn naughty
lol, so an academic who manufactured a fake free speech crisis in order to gain notoriety and grift the alt right streaming dollar, transmuted this into a repackaged reactionary self help racket, flirted repeatedly with the right and neo fascists and spreads demonstrably false and damaging bullshit about virtually every important political issue is 'flawed' and deserving of sympathy when his hypocrisy is exposed?


Back up the manufacturing, the flirting and then we can talk. Ready and willing to be wrong here. I never said anything about sympathy. And he would be the last one to ask for it. The rest is for the birds. Also, try a little less passive aggressivity next time. It'll add weight to your ranting.
 
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version

Well-known member
The other thing is he appears to discourage left-wing activism in favour of personal responsibility whilst apparently being perfectly fine with right-wing activism in support of things like free speech.
 

droid

Well-known member
The Canadian trans free speech thing - cynical and completely manufactured. Do your own research.

If you cant see how he has clearly aligned himself with the right (despite his disavowals) - some of which is detailed in this thread, then Im not sure I can help you.

None of this is new. Hes not the first or the last 'intellectual' to pull this shit. Whats most confusing is the cult like inability amongst otherwise rational people to see what's blatantly obvious. A few tears and a shaky voice is all it takes to convince some people I guess.
 
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