Ego

So glad my wisdom has put all this to bed and we are all moving forward together as friends.

if people want to avoid this haunted burial ground completely i understand but for those of us who had a few days off and missed out on the trouble here, there were lots of interesting ideas that could be picked up on

to go back just before the scene of the crime,

i mean you could say that all repression is sexual in character, stemming from a stunted arousal

but an arousal that’s not limited to explicit, genital, fucking.

so a group of straight blokes dealing with finding themselves in a gay club by giggling in the corner is an indicator of the particular repressive qualities of many hetero male group dynamics, but not necessarily due to the literal repressed sexual desires to fuck men that the members of that group may secretly harbour. although of course it may be.

like i don’t understand properly people who don’t dance, i cant help seeing it as pathological, repressed behaviour. but lots of people don’t enjoy dancing, and i've had to learn that insisting that it must be due to some knotty unreconstructed homophobic repression could be incorrect and annoying.

its just that the culturally inculcated repression mechanisms stem from so many factors to do with class and beyond that this kind of hetero reflex to being in a gay club indicates a lot more than maybe secretly fancying men.

but that being said, lots of gays, who’ve been fortunate enough to spent a lot of time outside of straight male bonding environments, seem relatively unrepressed. gay sex can be difficult if you’ve got a broom stuck up your arse.

I'd be up for it, but with a sense of trepidation. It's likely to reignite the tinderbox. But as you are new and have no allegiances I think you should start a separate thread to pursue some of the themes you found most interesting and I will join in, treading as carefully as I know how.

I definitely agree with you that I had loads of interesting ideas that were left under-explored. I'm glad you picked up on that although it doesn't surprise cos I marked you out right from the start as uncommonly perceptive and intelligent

The impossibility of emotional honesty is one bit I want help to expand on

Luka id like you to address my diagnosis of your role especially within the context of the dishonesty of certain rhetoric, refined positions and well constructed arguments thanks

shiels said:

Luka id like you to address my diagnosis of your role especially within the context of the dishonesty of certain rhetoric, refined positions and well constructed arguments thanks

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Yeah I saw that I thought it was very good. The reason I didn't respond is I thought people would take it the wrong way and attack me

shiels said:

The impossibility of emotional honesty is one bit I want help to expand on

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One of the things I was moaning about is that whenever I admit to a flaw in my personality people then use it as a weapon against me rather than reciprocating. Emotional honesty is predicated on a certain amount of trust and reciprocation. So that everyone is vulnerable. It's a difficult project to pursue in this disembodied environment, when there are such huge and ineradicable amounts of suspicion and paranoia and resentment.

as much or even more than that, skirmishes break out because of the collective limits of our writing and reading comprehension, boring though it might be to point out.

people can be equally honest in response to their particular misreadings of an online chat

kumar said:

as much or even more than that, skirmishes break out because of the collective limits of our writing and reading comprehension, boring though it might be to point out.

people can be equally honest in response to their particular misreadings of an online chat

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That's all the more the case when there are flashwords which trigger reactions.

Flashwords that get the blood up and demand a response before the eye has scanned the full body of the text.

And the more angry we get with one another the less we read what has actually been written. One response is just a cue for another escalatory response.

And of corse that is something we all enjoy. Ashamed of it, feeling sick and loving it all at once.

shiels said:

The impossibility of emotional honesty is one bit I want help to expand on

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https://www.dissensus.com/showthread.php?t=15223&highlight=Feelings

We didn't get far

luka said:

Flashwords that get the blood up and demand a response before the eye has scanned the full body of the text.

And the more angry we get with one another the less we read what has actually been written. One response is just a cue for another escalatory response.

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This is something I've discussed a fair bit in terms of conspiracy theory. But it's true across the map. So it's useful, potentially, to use these red light words to point out the cognitive jamming they produce.

In American political discourse the words communism and socialism work in this way.

Vulnerability and admitting to your ignorances and slightly shameful thoughts is the lifeblood of good connections and conversation

Sometimes you use the flaws, let the child act out because it’s good bait for a bit of a frenzy. Like when I’m in an extra curricular work do and the craic is shite and everyone is too polite so I start talking about wanking or something, loosens everyone up

and this is a very particular place, on the one hand a totally insular group of people who've known eachother for nearly 2 decades and still a public place where people use their real names, theyll naturally feel protective when the lads whatsapp jokes could potentially be misconstrued by people they might like to show this to.

theres a self awareness and general messianic complex here that is completely deserved but also something youre unlikely to find at electriciansforum.net

I mean, it's irresistible isn't it?

Theres such a thing, the middle class is synonymous with it, as a conspiracy of niceness, and it's stultifying and suffocating. No one can breathe. No one can express themselves. And doing a metaphorical fart in that metaphorical drawing room is irresistible.

kumar said:

and this is a very particular place, on the one hand a totally insular group of people who've known eachother for nearly 2 decades and still a public place where people use their real names, theyll naturally feel protective when the lads whatsapp jokes could potentially be misconstrued by people they might like to show this to.

theres a self awareness and general messianic complex here that is completely deserved but also something youre unlikely to find at electriciansforum.net

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Yeah, that's part of the difficulty. That it is at once private and public. And out of context, with no awareness of the characters involved, there is stuff here that could easily look completely regressive, reactionary and beyond the pale. Once you lose the context (some would argue even allowing for context) it can look appalling.

shiels said:

Vulnerability and admitting to your ignorances and slightly shameful thoughts is the lifeblood of good connections and conversation

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this is what i wanted to talk about in the caveh zahedi thread which was shamefully ignored,

i remember a kathleen hanna interview ages ago where she says how these grubby confessional healing efforts of that whole scene had the unintended consequence of people making zines about how secretly racist they were

sometimes you have to shut up

And the trust thing is crucial too. Trust that together you can open up new ways to see the world. Everyone has to come to the table with a certain flexibility, we’re not trying to convince but exploring an idea, bouncing it around til chunks that are greater than the sum of their parts start to emerge

This yes and thinking is part of wank brainstorming thinking like that great retreat scene in the thick of it. But also the funniest scenarios I’ve been in are crowds of wiped out Irish people at a party just building on each other’s bullshit and imaginations, there’s a real pressure to be funny, but it’s all open and fair game