padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I guess that is true - but how many people actually read Pynchon or The Illuminatus Trilogy?

the footprint in the wider culture isn't remotely comparable

also, Trump is a hero in right conspiracy discourse

everything you guys are mentioning is coming from the left
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
the popular iconography of Trump as president and how unique it is
I think you're overselling that. I'm not saying it's not interesting or weird or, in some ways new.

I'm saying 1) it's inextricable from the recent development of Internet culture 2) you can find precedents in American history if you look
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
Alex Jones was around prior to Trump
that's a better example. still, he wasn't a memeable figure, because meme culture didn't exist.

it's not hard to draw a line from John Birch to Behold a Pale Horse to Infowars to the shitposting alt-right

but also, none of those things possessed the same kind of self-aware irony. they just don't. you won't find an example because it doesn't exist.
 

luka

Well-known member
They're not inaccurate! Let me blow up my balloons before you try and burst them! Im laughing btw im not in a wild rage. But please. Let me have my fun.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
I guess that is true - but how many people actually read Pynchon or The Illuminatus Trilogy?

the footprint in the wider culture isn't remotely comparable

also, Trump is a hero in right conspiracy discourse

everything you guys are mentioning is coming from the left

I first heard of Illuminatus via things like Vague, and TOPY. Magical and occult discourse. It didn't have any readership on the Right AFAIK. And these were marginal small scale discourses, next to things like Ballard and Burroughs - partly I guess 'cos it's not that good.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
It didn't have any readership on the Right AFAIK
yeah that's what I'm saying - that stuff isn't just different from shitposting alt-right, it's pretty different from John Birch Society and Behold a Pale Horse

tho definitely there always weird areas in conspiracy thinking where right and left commingle

or like wasn't 80s magick stuff sometimes linked up with industrial/power electronics/etc culture, including it's unsavory elements?

you and John Eden would know best. all those neofolk people into Julius Evola and Aleister Crowley or whatever.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I'm old enough to remember the pre-millennial conspiracy discourse of the 90s - black helicopters, the NWO, etc

and it definitely did not have any levity to it. Timothy McVeigh, the militia movement, etc.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I'm old enough to remember the pre-millennial conspiracy discourse of the 90s - black helicopters, the NWO, etc

and it definitely did not have any levity to it. Timothy McVeigh, the militia movement, etc.
Yes. And to bring it back to our favourite 90s TV show, there were occasionally light-hearted moments in X-Files but these were restricted to the campy monster-of-the-week episodes, some of which, in spirit, weren't a million miles away from a typical episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. But the ones that formed the ongoing story about aliens and government conspiracies were always deadly serious.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
But the ones that formed the ongoing story about aliens and government conspiracies were always deadly serious
yeah definitely the canonical pop culture iteration of black helicopters etc

in retrospect, some of the conspiracy stuff is unintentionally funny because of how self-serious it all is about something so patently absurd (bees, clones, black ooze, etc) but at the time, deadly serious
 

luka

Well-known member
black ooze is really clever i think. it's a key feature of the best alien film, prometheus.
 
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