The Matrix vs Ghostbusters

luka

luka

Well-known member
just as it becasme impossible to really beleive in being a rock star (a crisis of authenticity which leads first to Kurt Cobain and the to The Darkness) its now impossible to beleive in politics. youre not only recapitulating historical gestures, youre doing it with ironic distance an d self awareness, even when youre rioting in the streets.
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
luka said:
but with a strange sense of playacting about it. LARPing as people refer to it.
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Yeah which is fine if you're into Merzbow because it's basically about consuming music and is a hobby. With politics you do wonder whether it's an activity that actually translates into anything beyond posting memes and having arguments on the internet.

It's piss easy to be radical online but how many of these people actually organise anything or are involved with trade unions or challenge their bosses at work...
 
john eden

john eden

male pale and stale
it's a weird time and it's interesting how all this will play out.

You could see some of the alt-right memer types getting a bit of wake up call at Charlottesville for example.

But on the other hand my daughter and her mates are quite into the BLM stuff and have been to a few of the protests and it's seen as a fairly normal thing to be doing as far as I can tell.

Politics is going to get weirder I guess. Where does it go after Trump?
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
luka said:
but with a strange sense of playacting about it. LARPing as people refer to it.
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protesting has always had an element of that about it, spectacle, pageant

definitely the irony and self-distancing permeating everything is new, tho as you both say, it doesn't preclude sincerity, all in the same moment even
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I presume it will be largely determined by how the economy, climate, technology, and the interaction of those things plays out in the next few decades
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
if people's material needs are largely met or not, if they feel like they matter or not, like someone is listening to their concerns
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
it doesnt preclude sincerity but it does complicate it. i think there's an underlying sense that this is not what the historical moment demands. its a hand-me-down.
padraig (u.s.) said:
I presume it will be largely determined by how the economy, climate, technology, and the interaction of those things plays out in the next few decades
Click to expand...

and more immediately with the virus
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
luka said:
i think there's an underlying sense that this is not what the historical moment demands. its a hand-me-down.
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it's something that's been in the air for awhile now - the idea of the West/humanity/capitalism/etc (depending on who's doing the speculating) is past its peak, on the decline. I remember an early episode of The Sopranos referencing it 20ish years ago. you might even go further to Jimmy Carter talking about malaise.

the specific thing you're talking about is more slippery maybe, the idea of present as playacting the past because no one has any idea what else to do

it's present in all things I mentioned - unease about technological change, its effect on the work, the economy more generally, climate change

that ultimately there is no responsible adult driving the bus as it drives toward the edge of a cliff
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I'm used to thinking like that, both by inclination and experience, but I don't think most people are

it's a hugely disillusioning realization to have. it sets people adrift. an easy snare for far-right or whatever bullshit.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
and it relates to discussion of power, seizing power, rejecting the idea of power

if you fundamentally don't believe in power - that no one is inherently a god, a master - you won't be let down when it turns out no one actually knows what the hell to do in a top-down sense
 
shiels

shiels

_
Good conversation here by the way. Didn’t expect things to go this way. Just wanted to say that cos I don’t like people jumping in and out to counter one small thing.
 
shiels

shiels

_
luka said:
just as it becasme impossible to really beleive in being a rock star (a crisis of authenticity which leads first to Kurt Cobain and the to The Darkness) its now impossible to beleive in politics. youre not only recapitulating historical gestures, youre doing it with ironic distance an d self awareness, even when youre rioting in the streets.
Click to expand...

Everything mediated and performative is unavoidable yeah. Don’t you feel the words authenticity and irony and sincerity aren’t useful any more. We’re several many layers of complexity beyond
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
ive had a few stabs at that. the riff raff thread. the method acting supplants irony thread. the pastiche thread. the beyond soul thread. needs more work though. thats a big project we can take on shiels. we'll nail it down if you like.
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
shiels said:
Don’t you feel the words authenticity and irony and sincerity aren’t useful any more
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I disagree with that

the Situationists were onto the notion that everything is performative more than half a century ago

more recently, discourse irony and sincerity have been percolating thru the culture since the turn of the 90s. or really, since the advent of post-modernism

not that Internet culture isn't a massive (not a sufficient word, but I don't there is one), shattering event
 
padraig (u.s.)

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
but the idea that you're just playacting the past isn't a new and radical departure

out of curiosity, I wonder who here has actually been involved or still is with irl politics, especially horizontal politics (rather than say tea or craner's involvement with Labour, nothing against it)
 
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