On a Second-Order Pragmatism
- Thread starter constant escape
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constant escape
winter withered, warm
Well what I'm referring to as algorithmic isn't the technocapitalism headed by various silicon valley figures, etc.
What I'm referring to as algorithmic is the manner in which matter orients itself. Calling it "algorithmic" merely requires us to generalize what an algorithm is (which I take to be a programed, learned, predetermined manner of processing a given input or stimuli. Like, sweating would be an algorithmic response to a certain circumstantial input, perhaps. Bit of a stretch.). This definition doesn't require there to be an outside programmer: a system can update/adapt its own behaviors in an algorithmic fashion.
From what I gather, an algorithm is, most generally, a preconfigured set/system of decisions, responses, and executions that operates in reaction to some input. In this sense, a system's functions can be said to be algorithmic inasfar as they are prompted by certain input-factors from the environment.
In this sense, algorithms pertain to a vastly broader category than the computers we use and understand. I don't think I would call a human a computer, but I think I would call them both processors.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
I think it is a pointless exercise doomed to failure
there's no such thing as an equitably optimized capitalism. capitalism by its nature cannot be made to be equitable.
you'd have to remove the profit motive, and then it isn't capitalism.
constant escape
winter withered, warm
The same algorithm can yield different output if it is fed different input. This is what seems to cancel the determinism/free-will debate.
sufi
lala
but but ....
Not only we are meshed by them and they channel our human interactions, we are making these things so they are of us
whoa there it's not even optional but control is not central or deliberate
sufi
lala
This is correct but you can throw out capitalism without losing this current
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
alright @constantescape - what is the goal of your project, in no more than one sentence? what's your thesis statement? one line pitch?
cos no offense, but I'm also gonna have to bail on this discussion if you can't articulate that
cos no offense, but I'm also gonna have to bail on this discussion if you can't articulate that
sufi
lala
But it's productive to think what equations or formulae or shortcuts or procedures can steer the cyborg
We can grab it by the antennae
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
you mean, optimize for equity not necessarily including (i.e. minus) capitalism?
theoretically I don't see why not. it's not like optimization is inherently bad, just the idealization of it for everything.
in practice, it seems extremely unlikely since this stuff - algorithms and optimization - sits at the very heart of state and capitalist power
I mean, I assume there are already people using these tools to promote equity in any number of ways
but systemically my $ is 100% on authoritarianism and market capture in the long run
as to specific procedures or whatever to "steer the cyborg" no idea. like I said, I'm no cyberneticist.
luka
Well-known member
Bloody hell Padraig! It's just a fun thought experiment! We're not literally going to do it! Its much more fun for everyone if you just play along
sufi
lala
We all are x
sufi
lala
generally someone has to, no? But not everyone
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
@luka he asked me a direction, I answered it
I am very sick of you telling me what I can and can't say, what is and isn't fun, what the purpose of the forum is, etc. I am done with it.
you don't own this place, your delusions of grandeur aside, and you don't decide how anyone uses it
just going to ignore you every time you say nonsense like this going forward. or I already do, but I'm addressing it this once.
I am very sick of you telling me what I can and can't say, what is and isn't fun, what the purpose of the forum is, etc. I am done with it.
you don't own this place, your delusions of grandeur aside, and you don't decide how anyone uses it
just going to ignore you every time you say nonsense like this going forward. or I already do, but I'm addressing it this once.
constant escape
winter withered, warm
One sentence: By abdicating part of our sense of agency to the forces that led to capitalism, and dedicating the other part of our agency to reevaluating what is worth pursuing in light of our current situation, we might be able to sidestep an irrevocably bleak future.
padraig (u.s.)
a monkey that will go ape
constant escape
winter withered, warm
The tragedy is, I'm serious about it.