chava
Well-known member
I also think that was a proper first reaction. Neil Ferguson is not a villain as the rightwingers want him to be now
Wuhan Killer Sneeze (thanks Tea)
- Thread starter HMGovt’s Glorious Return!
- Start date
-
- Tags
- "the delta variant" starring arnold schwarzenegger #braille4bats and dancing!!! biscuits nuts bodies in the streets cool people with bad lungs corpsey = patient zero do you ever look at this thread and wtf get pits done haha protein printer go brrr i'm trapped please help johnson’s technique please boris die public health films for bats rodent trumpet rotting corpses sailing the sea of biscuits slick prick soggy biscuits wash hands or die trying we are the swarm wear a fucking baguette then wubonic plague wuhan got you all in check
- Status
I also think that was a proper first reaction. Neil Ferguson is not a villain as the rightwingers want him to be now
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
It's not that I think you're wrong, but is this a new thing? I mean, who really anticipated the full consequences of mass ownership of TVs or cars? Or the industrial revolution, the printing press, metals, the wheel, agriculture...?
Which is not to say that the feedback cycle isn't far faster than it used to be, with analysts who analyse the impact of other analysts, and computers now autonomously designing the next generation of processors more efficiently than humans can, and so on.
i mean, the bit you've missed out from my post basically says that no?
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Well you suggested it was "boring", which I don't think is the case at all.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Well, to me, those are the interesting bits. But then I'm a nerd, so I would say that.
We've been at this stage for ages, reached different levels of complexity, but it's never moved beyond. Web 3.0/IoT has been on the cards for a while but has not taken off. The privacy/surveillance issue has been the problem? And the pandemic allows for these issues to be downplayed?
I know this has all been said btw, just pulling it together a bit.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Oh right, you mean "millennial" in the sense of epochal or catastrophic? I thought you meant in the everyday sense of "characteristic of people born in the 80s/early 90s".
IdleRich
IdleRich
One thing I've been meaning to mention for a while in this thread, it's a slight change of topic but I'll hope you'll forgive me.
In the old days of dissensus there were a lot of people who were fervent anti-capitalists and you would often get arguments about whether the system in the US was better than the system in Russia or China or whatever. I don't want to get into the details of the whole thing, or argue about how well those countries represent the systems of which they were often used as exemplars. But one specific aspect is that people would say things such as "in the west, at least you're free" and the Dark Lord Whose Name We Must Not Utter (I told you Harry Potter had been on this week) and others would always say "Ah... but the freedom you think you have in the west is a false freedom, you are controlled by chains in your heads you can't even see and so on" - whereas others would argue "No you fuckwit, in the US you can walk down the street and say what you like and stop in a cafe and drink what you like and meet who you like" and so on... and there was a real big thing about whether this very simplistic literal type of freedom actually had any value, and as to whether the honest visible rules that controlled you in certain countries were actually better than this freedom of fools that westerners had tricked themselves into believing was worthwhile.
Now I was rather amused recently to see someone who was definitely on the side of saying that we weren't actually any more free here, on facebook the other day, moaning about how the lockdown was a tyranny and how the right to go for a drink in a cafe with a mate had been taken away from us. And to me it illustrated that it's very easy to argue that a restrictive Communist system is actually better when you don't have to put up with it yourself. The simple point is that the "fake" freedom that we have in the west is actually better than not having it. That literally being allowed to go and do stuff that you want, even if subconsciously marketing and capital have taken away your agency, IS a real thing and that arguing that it wasn't is both wrong and also disingenuous when you're bravely and blithely claiming that other people are better off for not having something that you yourself enjoy. I think we probably all knew that deep down anyway of course, but it' since to have it confirmed. What I'm saying is I haven't seen any anti-capitalist philosophers saying that we haven't had anything taken away from us (maybe someone can find someone saying that but from what I understood a few years back it ought to be the default position of a really quite large group of people).
I'm half-asleep, I dunno if I said that clearly. Sorry if not.
In the old days of dissensus there were a lot of people who were fervent anti-capitalists and you would often get arguments about whether the system in the US was better than the system in Russia or China or whatever. I don't want to get into the details of the whole thing, or argue about how well those countries represent the systems of which they were often used as exemplars. But one specific aspect is that people would say things such as "in the west, at least you're free" and the Dark Lord Whose Name We Must Not Utter (I told you Harry Potter had been on this week) and others would always say "Ah... but the freedom you think you have in the west is a false freedom, you are controlled by chains in your heads you can't even see and so on" - whereas others would argue "No you fuckwit, in the US you can walk down the street and say what you like and stop in a cafe and drink what you like and meet who you like" and so on... and there was a real big thing about whether this very simplistic literal type of freedom actually had any value, and as to whether the honest visible rules that controlled you in certain countries were actually better than this freedom of fools that westerners had tricked themselves into believing was worthwhile.
Now I was rather amused recently to see someone who was definitely on the side of saying that we weren't actually any more free here, on facebook the other day, moaning about how the lockdown was a tyranny and how the right to go for a drink in a cafe with a mate had been taken away from us. And to me it illustrated that it's very easy to argue that a restrictive Communist system is actually better when you don't have to put up with it yourself. The simple point is that the "fake" freedom that we have in the west is actually better than not having it. That literally being allowed to go and do stuff that you want, even if subconsciously marketing and capital have taken away your agency, IS a real thing and that arguing that it wasn't is both wrong and also disingenuous when you're bravely and blithely claiming that other people are better off for not having something that you yourself enjoy. I think we probably all knew that deep down anyway of course, but it' since to have it confirmed. What I'm saying is I haven't seen any anti-capitalist philosophers saying that we haven't had anything taken away from us (maybe someone can find someone saying that but from what I understood a few years back it ought to be the default position of a really quite large group of people).
I'm half-asleep, I dunno if I said that clearly. Sorry if not.
luka
Well-known member
i didn''t participate in the debates youre referring to but i do remember them and im not sure anyone was arguing that all things being equal it was better to be forbidden to go for a pint with your mates, were they? there were some nutters on here. and a lot of people that were driven to express the most extreme version of any possible line of thought so i suppose it's possible
craner
Beast of Burden
Welcome home, Rich.
slackk
-
The most revealing conspiracy I have read about this is that it was an economic intervention from the US that backfired- the ongoing trade battle between US/China/EU would be felled in one swoop by victorious Americans by infecting Italian dignitaries from the Lombardy industrial sector during a trade trip to Wuhan- which is, of course, a huge financial funnel.
Thus allowing the US to gain upper hand in trade wars. I think Brexit somehow played into that, this idea that a UK/US cabal- I guess somewhere the Russians are involved what with the Boris/Trump kompromat etc- would then conquer two battling economic forces.
Unfortunately it was a forwarded message from whatsapp that I can't find anymore. Whatsapp is a huge radicalising tool imo, far worse than Facebook.
Anyway I would like to go for a pint but I'm not going inside any pubs. Maybe when it's sunny and the gardens are open.
Thus allowing the US to gain upper hand in trade wars. I think Brexit somehow played into that, this idea that a UK/US cabal- I guess somewhere the Russians are involved what with the Boris/Trump kompromat etc- would then conquer two battling economic forces.
Unfortunately it was a forwarded message from whatsapp that I can't find anymore. Whatsapp is a huge radicalising tool imo, far worse than Facebook.
Anyway I would like to go for a pint but I'm not going inside any pubs. Maybe when it's sunny and the gardens are open.
IdleRich
IdleRich
To be honest, I think I can take that egregious insult... and anyway it was really aimed at those with a grown up attention span...
Or, more realistically, it was just too hot to sleep and I managed one hour, I'm lucky I managed to find the keyboard.
Last edited:
- Status