ask xenogoth

luka

Well-known member
there are many reactionary psychedelias. it connects very easily and naturally with various occult and spiritual traditions, many of which are examplars of reaction. it can and does feed into fascism very easily. all sorts of elitism so on and so forth.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
Can it be fully sanitised, medicinalised, shorn of its unpredictability though? there's a dilution that takes place as things get brought to market from the fringe but a dispersion too, as more people have a go

I don't think its that psychedelia has lost its edge, but that the edge itself has been annexed by interests that take corporate forms.
 

luka

Well-known member
what if it has ceased to be the Outside?

my sense of it as it stands is that it hasn't and that there is still fertile ground there for cultural personal and political regeneration. i mean, what if it has? i dunno. what if?
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
there are many reactionary psychedelias. it connects very easily and naturally with various occult and spiritual traditions, many of which are examplars of reaction. it can and does feed into fascism very easily. all sorts of elitism so on and so forth.
There could very well be legitimate/potent reactionary psychedelia (functioning as a rearguard?), but what if the vanguard psychedelia (and perhaps even a legitimate avant garde) is actually robustly compatible with vanguard capitalism? "vanguard capitalism" referring to big-tech?
 

luka

Well-known member
what if? i don't know. you will have to describe how that might work in greater detail. it's too vague for me to have a sense of what you're imagining here. i can do my own imagining but it might not match up with what you're getting at. help me.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
Not sure about this but here it goes: what if the core/spirit of psychedelia is "on board" with riding unfettered capitalism beyond humanity, out of materiality.
 
Theres a lot of aesthetic baggage and a lot of ideological baggage but they can be plugged into any old shit. strip away the social contexts and what are the drugs doing? Theres a lot of science attempting to statify the psychedelic process… the visual aspects, the dissolving boundaries, technologies of non-self, mind manifesters, non specific amplifiers
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
Theres a lot of aesthetic baggage and a lot of ideological baggage but they can be plugged into any old shit. strip away the social contexts and what are the drugs doing? Theres a lot of science attempting to statify the psychedelic process… the visual aspects, the dissolving boundaries, technologies of non-self, mind manifesters, non specific amplifiers
And this scientific embrace can be seen as a correlate to corporate embrace, no? Psychedelia is appealing more and more to those who would base their practices on science (?).
 

luka

Well-known member
Not sure about this but here it goes: what if the core/spirit of psychedelia is "on board" with riding unfettered capitalism beyond humanity, out of materiality.

well in that case it's nothing to do with us. now what should we do to entertain ourselves in the meantime?
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
Well even if that is the case, it needs people who understand it to critique it. You understand this stuff. I don't buy the "entertain ourselves in the meantime" approach. People like you belong at the forefront, even if you aren't ultimately in alignment with its momentum.

I mean, am I totally off base there? Regardless of where the forefront is, or where it is moving, certain people are more geared/optimized to hack through the jungle.
 

luka

Well-known member
And this scientific embrace can be seen as a correlate to corporate embrace, no? Psychedelia is appealing more and more to those who would base their practices on science (?).


Theres a lot of aesthetic baggage and a lot of ideological baggage but they can be plugged into any old shit. strip away the social contexts and what are the drugs doing? Theres a lot of science attempting to statify the psychedelic process… the visual aspects, the dissolving boundaries, technologies of non-self, mind manifesters, non specific amplifiers

the science can never tell you what the drugs are doing in any useful sense becasue it is experienced by the mind.
 

constant escape

winter withered, warm
the science can never tell you what the drugs are doing in any useful sense becasue it is experienced by the mind.
Well the science is the rearguard, conservative slowpoke compared to the direct experiencing you have in mind, no?
 

luka

Well-known member
Well even if that is the case, it needs people who understand it to critique it. You understand this stuff. I don't buy the "entertain ourselves in the meantime" approach. People like you belong at the forefront, even if you aren't ultimately in alignment with its momentum.

I mean, am I totally off base there? Regardless of where the forefront is, or where it is moving, certain people are more geared/optimized to hack through the jungle.

what's the point of critiquing a runaway process like the one you are describing? you might as well critique an avalanche. i mean, i think there is a trajectory towards dematerialisation obviously. everyone can see it. i started a big thread on it which is probably far too long now for anyone to read.

i guess that what remains unclear is whether the technoligcal manifestation of this is christ or anti christ.
 

luka

Well-known member
Well the science is the rearguard, conservative slowpoke compared to the direct experiencing you have in mind, no?

it just doesn't tell you anything meaningful. if i intersect with god consciousness lets say, or if i get a specific insight into the nature of reality, or if i am adrift in delicious ooze of an erotic wonderland, what can science tell me about these things?
 
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