luka

Well-known member
I think it's a projection of decadence. The atmosphere of stalemate, dead ends, political gridlock. A sense of no way but back.

yes, partly of course but what i would be wary of is being reductive and assuming it is solely a question of projection.
 

luka

Well-known member
if you think in terms of posture it seems uncontroversial to say that a lot of our activities are creating problems with spine and shoulders and so on. it may be just as 'natural' to slump as to straighten the back etc but it's also worse at a basic physiological level. in terms of pain and strength and freedom of movement etc. so our modern lives are very obviously creating problems we then try in various ways to counterbalance. by going to the gym, by mediatating, by taking all types of drugs, by changiong our diets, etc etc etc
 

luka

Well-known member
you are taking a cynical attitude which is in itself nakedly ideological becuase you as a passionate neoliberal are concerned with defending copntemporary capitalism :D
 

entertainment

Well-known member
I'm not really taking any attitude and HEY that's not true about neoliberal. I would vote for Bernie Sanders probably.
 

luka

Well-known member
"Harmony' is certainly an influential idea that should be challenged, because many arguments that should be recognised as open and undecided will seem settled and clear through the application of its apparent force. Some points can be advanced for confrontation at the start. The first point is that, if we exclude humanity, harmony is not part of nature. It can have no meaning to say that one tree is in harmony with another, or that summer is in harmony with winter, unless the meaning is man-made. Nor should we be ready to believe that if we use modern terms like 'environment' or 'eco-system' we are any closer to harmony as a principle of natural function. If we claim that nature operates within balances then this observes only that processes have normal functional parameters depending on constraints and limits, mostly of a material kind. We cannot invest such continuities and ruptures of process in nature with any kind of meaning or value unless we clearly recognise that such investment is man-made, not produced by nature or by some imaginary controlling spirit. To invoke spirits is the merest superstitious animism, and when this is done in a sophisticated human context it always conceals other motives, as if to protect them from rational analysis. "
 

luka

Well-known member
'natural' like harmony is a word to be treated with the utmost suspicion but equally we need to be aware of the effects our environment and our habits have on us.
 

luka

Well-known member
once after working on a building site i forgot to take my ear plugs out and i couldnt understand, as i walked home why i felt so at peace, so calm etc and that was the first real insight i got into the impact of constant white noise.
 

luka

Well-known member
the same applies to visual noise. me and yyyaldrin were talking about how during lockdown every figure seemed to stand out more clerarly and more distinctly from its ground and this was due, in part, to a decrease in visual noise (plus, i assume, an increase in stress chemical and a corresponding alertness, like a hunted animal)
 

luka

Well-known member
the other thing to take into account is that what is 'natural' to a domestic or farm animal may not neccessarily be in its own best interests and the task may be to unplug the natural impulses and discover a freedom from the dictates of a preprogrammed 'nature'
 
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luka

Well-known member
you may for example feel a kind of dog like loyalty to an employer who feels bound by no corresponding commitment towards you
 

entertainment

Well-known member
this, from a kind of weird old Maoist is well worth reading https://www.cai.cam.ac.uk/sites/default/files/harmony.pdf

reminds me of some story, can't remember from where, of a cultural scientist critical of the expansion of western technology, who went to some third world village and asked the village folk about what they thought about the recent introduction of electric light, to which they replied,

"it's great, now we can see at night"
 

entertainment

Well-known member
You seem more rationalist and agnostic here than elsewhere. Is it the influence of Prynne's temperate sensibilities?
 

luka

Well-known member
I was working at an espresso bar with a load of lads from Nepal and a Maoist asked them a leading question about happiness outside of the west, hoping they'd say life was hard there, but full of joy and laughter but he didn't get the response he was hoping for
 

luka

Well-known member
The worst people in England. Absolutely disgusting on a visceral level. Grotesque. I think we should start mining coal again.
 
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