DannyL

Wild Horses
Broadly speaking I thought it would be really nice if the country went a bit further left and took a Jacinda Arden slightly soppy focus on things like being nice
You know of course that if Arden was in UK politics Corbyn supporters would have spent the last few years denouncing as a Blairite neoliberal traitor?
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
hmm didn't know about that. but i'd propose it the other way around. have the left-wing side of labour leave the party.
They tried a repeat of the SDP thing with Change UK recently. It went predictably badly.

I'm not gong to spend the evening rowing about this stuff online anyway. Maybe tomorrow.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
is there a realistic option of labour splitting into two fractions? wouldn't this be best for everybody? all they offer you is a false dilemma.
It would certainly be better for the Conservatives and their voters. Others, not so much, I think.
 

DannyL

Wild Horses
Labour has always had these divisions. I'm reading a biography of Clem Atlee at the moment, and despite literally founding the welfare state, he wasn't left enough for the left and they put massive amount of energy into undermining him and cunting him off. Quelle surprise.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
There won’t be a split but lots of people will leave. Then there will be a probably awful “left unity” party set up and all the usual wankers will jostle themselves into leadership positions and there will be lots of noise but it will be bollocks and many of them will then call for a vote for Labour “without illusions” at the next election.

see for example The Socialist Alliance in the early noughties.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
There won’t be a split but lots of people will leave. Then there will be a probably awful “left unity” party set up and all the usual wankers will jostle themselves into leadership positions and there will be lots of noise but it will be bollocks and many of them will then call for a vote for Labour “without illusions” at the next election.

see for example The Socialist Alliance in the early noughties.
Wankers of the World, Unite!
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
he wasn't left enough for the left and they put massive amount of energy into undermining him and cunting him off. Quelle surprise.
I mean what are people supposed to do Dan?

it's the eternal dilemma, exactly how much of your personal values to compromise in the pursuit of avoiding something even worse

as John makes abundantly clear, there were excellent reasons for the left to mistrust and dislike Atlee

you can disagree with people about what's worth compromising and what isn't, but it's an individual decision

and there are usually compelling reasons to go either way
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
I had the same kinds of arguments, as a disaffected teenager around the turn of the millennium, with rabid Clintonites

gutting welfare and criminalizing the poor, the shameful bombing of the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant, etc

they never wanted to hear it

the same way Obama folk never wanted to hear about his massive expansion of the drone war or whatever
 

john eden

male pale and stale
as @padraig (u.s.) says not getting 100% behind the leader is kind of the point of the left and politics generally. Otherwise you are in a cult. And everyone draws the line in the sand somewhere slightly different.
 

blissblogger

Well-known member
One confusing thing about politics in the USA is that "blue" is the colour of the Democrats and "red" is the colour of Republicans. The colour semiotics are completely inverted from the rest of the world.
 
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