Keir Starmer
history is stuff that doesn't really connect with me in 2021
landscape isn't really something you can be proud of, it's not an achievement, it's just rocks and water
culture, politics, law, hahaha fuck me off this rainy facist island pronto
no but let's be real: even if you believe we were the good guys through history (spoiler: we were not) it seems odd to be proud of it when the figures involved in it are pretty much gone.
Britain is a country where the poorest people queue up at foodbanks while millionaires rake it in during a global pandemic. I find it hard to not be glib about national pride when this is happening - to me that is a failure of law, of politics and social culture.
Britain is a country where the poorest people queue up at foodbanks while millionaires rake it in during a global pandemic. I find it hard to not be glib about national pride when this is happening - to me that is a failure of law, of politics and social culture.
like I say, maybe the problem is me and my inability to conceive of a part of my identity related to "nationhood" and "geography." I remember once being admonished for not supporting a Scottish guy on X Factor (!) even though he was shit because it was a matter of national pride, it's a totally different mindset for these flagshaggers.
luka
Well-known member
you cant get out of being british unfortunately. its your lot in life. so you have to reckon with your inheritance you cant disavow it. the place made you who you are, even when you were resisting it, you speak its language, its rock supports your weight, its culture shaped your sensibilities. you are britain and youll never be anything else.
pattycakes_
Can turn naughty
Being anti all the empire, war winning pride and social inequality, plus everything else you mentioned is perfectly rational
Oh yeah and the royals
Bragg's answer to that seemed to be in part rooted in the history of the Labour movement, English socialism and so on. The Welfare State of course. There are some progressive tendencies in British history much as it seems to upset everybody to try and acknowledge that. You could add in the multiculturalism we have, growing out of the Commonwealth. I think - when it works (i.e. my life)- this is something to be proud of.
john eden
male pale and stale
These are all great things which are generally not celebrated by wrapping yourself in the Union Jack.
Slothrop
Tight but Polite
I mean, isn't the basic problem here that "patriotism" in British politics isn't about celebrating the good things about Britain - or even wanting to make good things happen to British people - it's about being suspicious of foreigners (including people born in Britain who aren't "really British" if you know what I mean) and celebrating all the times that we got one over on the foreigners without making it awkward by talking about "war crimes" or "genocide" or any of that stuff that we all known doesn't really count if you're only doing it to foreigners.