Bellingcat (OSINT)

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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
You also get this sort of nauseating pro-saudi apologia from them, which illustrates that geopolitics is in fact different to political repression.

www.occrp.org

Trying to Curb Corruption, Saudi Arabia Arrests 226 Suspects

Last week’s arrest of 226 people, mainly a mix of public and private sector officials, is part of a campaign initiated by Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman to curb corruption in Saudi Arabia, Saudi journalists told OCCRP on Monday.
www.occrp.org www.occrp.org

www.occrp.org

Saudi Arabia Strengthens Anti-Corruption Legislation

In a continuation of its recent corruption sweep, Saudi Arabia amended an anti-corruption law on Tuesday, removing a 60-day statute of limitations for investigating allegations against current or former ministers, Reuters reported.
www.occrp.org www.occrp.org
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Not saying these can all be laid at the feet of Bellingcat, but Higgens has been on record accusing people who are critical of the OCCRP of siding with the criminal, corrupt and immoral, so there is a bit of special pleading going on there. Ignoring of course that corruption itself as a moral category which prevents itself as analytical is problematic, doubly so when applied to entities like nation states.
 
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DannyL

Wild Horses
Their origin point is grassroots though - it was a hobbyist project of Higgins' that took off - and they're still making use of open sourced contributions which is a form of the grassroots, right? By it' nature.

The pro-democracy stuff is my addition, in response to Sufi's post not theirs.

And the OCCRP stuff - you say works with - in what capacity? Do you think or know that they influence Bellingcat's work negatively? "Works with" is a big vague.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
everyones origin point is grassroots but the assumption is you get folded into and compromised by Evil. that's what third is saying has happened here.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
And as they (bellingcat) are a small team of mostly 'volunteers' in their own words, i find it interesting how they refuse to touch the multiple unsolved deaths of Ferguson protesters given they are primarily an English language publication. The picture doesn't look so rosy when you have to remain silent on corruption in the UK and US because it doesn't dovetail with geopolitics. https://news.stlpublicradio.org/hea...d-a-ferguson-protester-seeks-answers#stream/0
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
DannyL said:
Their origin point is grassroots though - it was a hobbyist project of Higgins' that took off - and they're still making use of open sourced contributions which is a form of the grassroots, right? By it' nature.

The pro-democracy stuff is my addition, in response to Sufi's post not theirs.

And the OCCRP stuff - you say works with - in what capacity? Do you think or know that they influence Bellingcat's work negatively? "Works with" is a big vague.
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Well frankly they could have no explicit influence at all apart from funding them. But that doesn't matter and is besides the point.
 
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DannyL

Wild Horses
In general, and this is me, not Bellingcat - I do wonder what the mentality at work is when you see articles demonstrating the crimes of an authoritarian nationalist proto-fascist state with a strong evidence trail and you're like "well, that makes me suspicious". Russia and others are bad actors, in a completely different league in terms of corruption and criminality compared to our own states.

Re. Bahrain, Ferguson. The expectation here is that Bellingcat have to have universal coverage of every act of criminality on an international stage before you'll accept them as legit. Seems an unrealistic set of expectations to me.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
luka said:
everyones origin point is grassroots but the assumption is you get folded into and compromised by Evil. that's what third is saying has happened here.
Click to expand...

I mean not even the good/evil dichotomy. I'm just doing what every good historian does and saying no source is objective. The first lesson you learn in year7 history is every source is biased, even ones you agree with.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
DannyL said:
In general, and this is me, not Bellingcat - I do wonder what the mentality at work is when you see articles demonstrating the crimes of an authoritarian nationalist proto-fascist state with a strong evidence trail and you're like "well, that makes me suspicious". Russia and others are bad actors, in a completely different league in terms of corruption and criminality compared to our own states.

Re. Bahrain, Ferguson. The expectation here is that Bellingcat have to have universal coverage of every act of criminality on an international stage before you'll accept them as legit. Seems an unrealistic set of expectations to me.
Click to expand...

No no this is strawmanning. I never said Bellingcat were not legit. I just said that questions can be raised about their partisanship.

Seriously man, fuck off with the wannabe psychoanalysis.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
DannyL said:
In general, and this is me, not Bellingcat - I do wonder what the mentality at work is when you see articles demonstrating the crimes of an authoritarian nationalist proto-fascist state with a strong evidence trail and you're like "well, that makes me suspicious". Russia and others are bad actors, in a completely different league in terms of corruption and criminality compared to our own states.

Re. Bahrain, Ferguson. The expectation here is that Bellingcat have to have universal coverage of every act of criminality on an international stage before you'll accept them as legit. Seems an unrealistic set of expectations to me.
Click to expand...
we've explained the 'mentality at work'. it's about understanding what is at stake and how the game is played.
 
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DannyL

Wild Horses
thirdform said:
I mean not even the good/evil dichotomy. I'm just doing what every good historian does and saying no source is objective. The first lesson you learn in year7 history is every source is biased, even ones you agree with.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I thought evil was a bit strong. Some of their investigations doevetail with British foreign policy interests but some don't i.e their work in Yemen.
 
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DannyL

Wild Horses
thirdform said:
No no this is strawmanning. I never said Bellingcat were not legit. I just said that questions can be raised about their partisanship.

Seriously man, fuck off with the wannabe psychoanalysis.
Click to expand...
The first paragraph wasn't aimed at you, more Luke and Sufi. Your posts here have been reasonable - well 'til that last one anyway.
 
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thirdform

pass the sick bucket
DannyL said:
In general, and this is me, not Bellingcat - I do wonder what the mentality at work is when you see articles demonstrating the crimes of an authoritarian nationalist proto-fascist state with a strong evidence trail and you're like "well, that makes me suspicious". Russia and others are bad actors, in a completely different league in terms of corruption and criminality compared to our own states.

Re. Bahrain, Ferguson. The expectation here is that Bellingcat have to have universal coverage of every act of criminality on an international stage before you'll accept them as legit. Seems an unrealistic set of expectations to me.
Click to expand...

Only because you outsource your crimes though. See 80s Iraq.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
what i said was that glancing at their front page my first thought was, this looks suss. and that was based on the fact that there is a war going on between russia and the american-led west. its not about cheering on russia or thinking that the west is 'worser' or 'eviller' than Russia, or wanting the west to fall to the barbarian hordes.
 
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DannyL

Wild Horses
No worries. I do think my knowledge of British foreign policy inequities is lacking - and not automatically built into my worldview - so your point about Iraq is fair. I do think when someone doesn't see the current Russian state as *bad* straight off it's a lack of knowledge or privileged contrarianism at work though.
 
luka

luka

Well-known member
its not just as third said, partisanship, i think it goes beyond that into being active combatants and probably folded to some degree into the establishment as part of the overall war strategy
 
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