Maybe the serial Killer is the quintessential 21st Century character, taking the mantle from the detective and the cowboyThe themed or eccentric serial killer's one way to expand the detective novel. You develop the killer into as much of a character as the detective, e.g. the Thomas Harris stuff.
exactly"Ah, the famous detective X, at last we meet, you and I are alike you know"
"I'm nothing like you"
this is why literary fiction is so boring, they refuse anything that smacks of excitement, invention, romance, atmosphere and all the other stuff that genres are made of, leaving very little, just despairI do think that detective fiction - like other genre fiction- is treated very much as second class writing and for literary snobs to buy into it then it was sold as post modern/ironic etc but much in the same way as sci fi at its best is as good as anything else the detective genre has great writers. I’m no expert but I will often have one on the go - I tend to like series so the characterisation can build over the long run - Martin Beck, Maigret are the two that immediately spring to mind but there was a period of time in the 90s and 00s when I think Ian Rankin’s Rebus was as good as anything I was reading. If he hadn’t been in a literary ghetto he would have won the Booker.
not sure if that answers your post @IdleRich
Possibly a rather sweeping generalisation but literary fiction could learn much from genre. I was struck by how good M John Harrison’s dialogue was, for example - really got that middle that most conversations have without making a big song and dance about it.this is why literary fiction is so boring, they refuse anything that smacks of excitement, invention, romance, atmosphere and all the other stuff that genres are made of, leaving very little, just despair
possibly but i stand by it, I love MJH he's also a rare example of a genre writer who's taken seriously by the TLS (to take that organ as a synecdoche of the establishment).Possibly a rather sweeping generalisation but literary fiction could learn much from genre. I was struck by how good M John Harrison’s dialogue was, for example - really got that middle that most conversations have without making a big song and dance about it.
I totally agree that detective fiction and genre fiction as a whole is looked down on, in more than one medium. In cinema horror films are looked down on by a certain kind of person so they get round that by describing The Shining as "a Kubrick film that uses the tropes of horror" - similarly Margaret Atwood is a literary writer choosing to work within the sci-fi genre.I do think that detective fiction - like other genre fiction- is treated very much as second class writing and for literary snobs to buy into it then it was sold as post modern/ironic etc but much in the same way as sci fi at its best is as good as anything else the detective genre has great writers. I’m no expert but I will often have one on the go - I tend to like series so the characterisation can build over the long run - Martin Beck, Maigret are the two that immediately spring to mind but there was a period of time in the 90s and 00s when I think Ian Rankin’s Rebus was as good as anything I was reading. If he hadn’t been in a literary ghetto he would have won the Booker.
not sure if that answers your post @IdleRich
I do sometimes wonder what is left for the genre of Literary Fiction. Books that have to carefully avoid being about anything... I know that's not true, but at times it does sort of feel that way.this is why literary fiction is so boring, they refuse anything that smacks of excitement, invention, romance, atmosphere and all the other stuff that genres are made of, leaving very little, just despair
answered your own question there it needs to genre-ify, someone should start up a press churning out paperbacks about scientists contemplating the heat death of the universe then killing their tennis partner's wife as a resultthe genre of Literary Fiction
I think anyone who gets good enough within their field tends to be elevated and treated differently. I get the impression Chandler's seen as more "literary" by virtue of being considered one of the masters of his field. It's still genre fiction, but it's genre fiction literary types are allowed to like because of his stature.Trying to think if there is anyone who people try and winkle out of the detective genre in the same way, perhaps Eco with The Name of The Rose.
i think it takes a bit more than that - you have to die just as the first film adaptation of your work comes out, be taken up by academia for a bit, and then be rediscovered and canonised after that. i'm about 85% seriousI think anyone who gets good enough within their field tends to be elevated and treated differently. I get the impression Chandler's seen as more "literary" by virtue of being seen as one of the masters of the genre. It's still genre fiction, but it's genre fiction literary types are allowed to like because of his stature.
Are you basing this entirely on PKD?i think it takes a bit more than that - you have to die just as the first film adaptation of your work comes out, be taken up by academia for a bit, and then be rediscovered and canonised after that. i'm about 85% serious