Strange American Things.

Not that those are the only two major factors. Financial crisis, lockdown measures, etc.

Clinamenic said:

The high rate of pilling/polarization, in the US, seems attributable to the combo of academic progressivism and Trump. The former helps bring ugly and critical truths to upper-middle class white culture at the cost of mystifying some of these social issues (thanks to continental philosophy jargon), while the latter seems to have been chiefly concerned with exacerbating the tension occasioned by such critical discourse.

Click to expand...

The academic mystification of social issues, largely as a result of the influence of continental philosophy, I think helped turn social progressivism into more of an upper-middle class project (at times an ostentatious one), and this I think intersected with class resentment due largely to the housing crisis, from what I understand.

By "the academic mystification of social issues" I mean the discourse pertaining to race, gender, sexuality, that was influenced by things like critical theory, marxism, psychoanalysis, deconstruction, etc. Very heady things that I, myself, appreciate to a large extent, but stuff that nonetheless registers as gibberish to almost everyone outside the university.

Clinamenic said:

Very heady things that I, myself, appreciate to a large extent, but stuff that nonetheless registers as gibberish to almost everyone outside the university.

Click to expand...

Took me what felt like a long time to see that.

One of my college roommates, who voted for Trump and with whom I got along well regardless, said that his high school had actual klan families in it. That was what registered as racism to him, rather than microagressions and other matters of nuance and theory that seem often pedantically insisted upon by progressive academia qua evangelical decolonialism.

And yet, as Fanon described, the psycho-affective dimension of colonialism, or of a post-slavery economy like ours, can be a matter of nuance sometimes, in terms of identifying the problems and whatnot. The constant tension that is fueled by things like microaggressions, etc.

Similar to gender in that respect, it seems, in the sense that the little things really aren't that little, when felt from the inside, from the perspective of the conquered.

At any rate, its possible to engage with this stuff as a white person without being riddled with race guilt, class guilt, various liberal neuroses that do little to improve the situation for anyone.

These neuroses are among the most fundamental problems plaguing the Democratic Party, it would seem.

On one level, these neuroses can have some utility, insofar as they encourage critical self-reflection about how a person should interact with very different people. But beyond that, it seems liable to get caught in something of a cancerous feedback loop of guilt and self-pity, "I am not really suffering, not compared to them." etc.

WashYourHands said:

This fucking guy

Click to expand...

🇺🇲🇺🇲 This a thread for patriots only. 🇺🇲🇺🇲

Read the sign above the door!

Clinamenic said:

On one level, these neuroses can have some utility, insofar as they encourage critical self-reflection about how a person should interact with very different people. But beyond that, it seems liable to get caught in something of a cancerous feedback loop of guilt and self-pity, "I am not really suffering, not compared to them." etc.

Click to expand...

Stan, let's cut through the admirable equivocating: are you a patriot or aren't ya

suspended said:

Stan, let's cut through the admirable equivocating: are you a patriot or aren't ya

Click to expand...

I admire this nation, especially its means of government.

But I put planet before nation, ultimately.

I think, despite everything, the US is the best exemplar of democracy at scale, on the planet.

Clinamenic said:

But I put planet before nation, ultimately.

Click to expand...

I agree I'm with you how can America help the world what's the first step

1) leave other countries alone a bit more? Or some countries but not others? What's your take here

2) keep on pioneering/funding green energy tech

Any others we should keep in mind?

I don't yet know where to draw the line between supporting global democracy, and outright nation-building. The latter, should we even prove successful which our track record seems iffy on, would seem much more controversial than the former, but the former seems more vague.

And yeah I think leading in the top green energy industries should be a priority, as that would seem to help secure US hegemony for the foreseeable future.

Clinamenic said:

And yet, as Fanon described, the psycho-affective dimension of colonialism, or of a post-slavery economy like ours, can be a matter of nuance sometimes, in terms of identifying the problems and whatnot. The constant tension that is fueled by things like microaggressions, etc.

Similar to gender in that respect, it seems, in the sense that the little things really aren't that little, when felt from the inside, from the perspective of the conquered.

Click to expand...

I think this is right. I also think the problem is that with the microsocial, it's hard to analyze one situation against others in its "class" of situations—against what's normal. Bias is undoubtedly real and even statistically significant at scale—but in a given interaction, whatever your identity markers are, it's very hard knowing what is exerting causal force, so hard to speculate how someone else with a different complex (intersectional! except on steroids) web of identity markers would've been treated. And because these are matters of offense, the interpretation of the offended party plays an active role in whether the microgesture lands as an offense.

And so getting in the frame of mind where one expects to be treated as a second class citizen has a real top-down/reflective effect on how one reads and compares ambiguous social information. Meanwhile others' experiences are so hidden from us—in PTA's Punch-Drunk Love, a sobbing male confesses to his dentist friend that he cries a lot. Dentist friend asks if it's a normal amount: our lead replies, "I don't know what's normal because I don't know how other people are like."

It's not that I don't fully agree that there are subtle ways our social interactions reflect and reinforce the power structure. It's just that, when these subtle things are handled and discussed in real life, by those who take up arms as soldiers against them, it's as if they're obviously an aggression or offense, as if the harm is inherent. Parties pay lip service to the idea such speech is "structural" but then put real blame and shame onto the alleged violator as somehow personally blameworthy. Parties pay lip service to the idea that the dynamic is subtle, but then expect their personal social interpretation to be treated as authoritative—infallible and beyond question. Parties pay lip service to the way intent and context shape meaning, then proceed to ignore context and intent.

My favorite story that illustrates this when a Barnard friend of mine thought it was a microagression when a Middle-Eastern halal cart guy asked her what country she was from. To me he seemed like a friendly young guy, probably immigrant from his broken English, who was curious about the world and wasn't up with upper-middle class etiquette. She was still fuming about it 15 minutes later, like it ruined her afternoon.

luka said:

i would have stopped being friends with her. this is becasue i have principles.

Click to expand...

It was my girlfriend's friend so not much optionality—but it did make me question the romantic relationship.

Yeah that halal example demonstrates, to me, someone simply being oversensitive, a veritable snowflake I would say, and externalizing this turmoil onto the intentions of others. But hey, we are all liable to have snowflake moments, no big deal.