IdleRich

IdleRich
the drip drip of allegations and evidence is ... curious, since most of these parties happened months ago, i'm a little intrigued to know whose scheduling it all,

My guess... lots of people have evidence of Johnson doing illegal or otherwise wrong things seeing as he pretty much thinks he can do what he wants and he's hardly discreet. When the police were called cos he was fighting with his wife the article about that mentioned in passing that his car is covered in tickets the whole time cos he just parks wherever the fuck he wants. So, the point is, you don't really have to be some kind of genius to trick him into doing something that could be really bad if it came out... and now they can see which way the wind is blowing so there is no reason to hold back. I bet there are loads of people going "Hey, do you still have that video of Bozza punching a four year old?" or "What will happen if I send to the Mirror this thing when a drunken Boris paid a tramp fifty quid to wank him off?"
 

wild greens

Well-known member
There was an article in the Mail at the weekend that says that there are Stratton videos that ITV have from the same "party" footage that has her talking about Boris' mistresses and love-child etc as well

There are definitely vultures circling now, but you can't tell me that alleged drug fiend swingers party Gove isnt in the same boat

Who is clean in the Tory party really
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
What amazes me is... who are these people who are surprised? I'm not saying that people need to watch the news every day or whatever, but if you live in this country and have eyes and/or ears and not have at least a vague idea that Johnson is a horrible super-privileged bastard who is as lazy as he is fucking useless, looks down on everyone who isn't like him and has been repeatedly fired for lying then.... well, I guess you are getting punished right now for your lack of awareness.
Of course people don't need or shouldn't need to know about this stuff, but if you are gonna vote and get involved with choosing which person runs the country and the lives of everyone in it perhaps you should take a slight interest. I guess I'm saying, it's fine to have no interest in politics and as a result be completely ignorant of it, and it's fine to have really strong opinions about politics and argue about it and so on... but what does seem a little problematic is to be completely ignorant and yet have really strong opinions. In fact that doesn't just apply to politics does it... I mean, imagine being told about a book by someone who had never read it! OK, bad example...
 

shakahislop

Well-known member
A girl I used to go out with presumably still has a piece of paper where I got Boris Johnson to write 'Dear x, yes I am a teddy bear, Boris Johnson'. This did actually happen. Maybe this could be the leak that brings him down.
 

shakahislop

Well-known member
I think with regards to how shit a lot of the ministers seem to be at their jobs, the thing that comes to mind is how shallow a pool of people you have to pick from to do those jobs. You've got like 15 cabinet jobs to fill, plus all those other bits and pieces like Deputy Leader and so on. You can only use MPs (and maybe Lords, I don't know) to fill those positions, and there's about 300 of them in your party. Some probably openly hate you or are in other factions of the party that you don't want to promote. Some of them you don't trust, some of them you think will be hated by the bit of the public you need to get to vote for you, probably some of them are too old, some of them just aren't interested etc. So in the end you really don't have a huge number of people to pick from.
 

woops

is not like other people
I think with regards to how shit a lot of the ministers seem to be at their jobs, the thing that comes to mind is how shallow a pool of people you have to pick from to do those jobs. You've got like 15 cabinet jobs to fill, plus all those other bits and pieces like Deputy Leader and so on. You can only use MPs (and maybe Lords, I don't know) to fill those positions, and there's about 300 of them in your party. Some probably openly hate you or are in other factions of the party that you don't want to promote. Some of them you don't trust, some of them you think will be hated by the bit of the public you need to get to vote for you, probably some of them are too old, some of them just aren't interested etc. So in the end you really don't have a huge number of people to pick from.
and even the ones you do pick are all eyeing your job
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
I think with regards to how shit a lot of the ministers seem to be at their jobs, the thing that comes to mind is how shallow a pool of people you have to pick from to do those jobs. You've got like 15 cabinet jobs to fill, plus all those other bits and pieces like Deputy Leader and so on. You can only use MPs (and maybe Lords, I don't know) to fill those positions, and there's about 300 of them in your party. Some probably openly hate you or are in other factions of the party that you don't want to promote. Some of them you don't trust, some of them you think will be hated by the bit of the public you need to get to vote for you, probably some of them are too old, some of them just aren't interested etc. So in the end you really don't have a huge number of people to pick from.
There must, I assume, be some middle ground between a system like China's where government ministers aren't really any different from senior civil servants, and are simply appointed as expert technocrats, and a system like ours, where Michael fucking Gove, once elected by a constituency, can somehow end up being given a series of cabinet roles relating to things he obviously knows the square root of fuck all about.

What I mean is, I think in some democracies it's usual that the education minister has some experience of teaching or at least studied education policy at university, the health minister has some kind of background in medicine or public health, that sort of thing - in addition to having some sort of democratic mandate.
 

woops

is not like other people
There must, I assume, be some middle ground between a system like China's where government ministers aren't really any different from senior civil servants, and are simply appointed as expert technocrats, and a system like ours, where Michael fucking Gove, once elected by a constituency, can somehow end up being given a series of cabinet roles relating to things he obviously knows the square root of fuck all about.

What I mean is, I think in some democracies it's usual that the education minister has some experience of teaching or at least studied education policy at university, the health minister has some kind of background in medicine or public health, that sort of thing - in addition to having some sort of democratic mandate.
at least the prime minister, a classics student, has done the research on mad emperors, electing horse to parliament etc
 

shakahislop

Well-known member
There must, I assume, be some middle ground between a system like China's where government ministers aren't really any different from senior civil servants, and are simply appointed as expert technocrats, and a system like ours, where Michael fucking Gove, once elected by a constituency, can somehow end up being given a series of cabinet roles relating to things he obviously knows the square root of fuck all about.

What I mean is, I think in some democracies it's usual that the education minister has some experience of teaching or at least studied education policy at university, the health minister has some kind of background in medicine or public health, that sort of thing - in addition to having some sort of democratic mandate.
there are a load of different ways to set it up. one of the problems with uk politics is that the basic structures don't change very often. the obvious one being the electoral system in the first place. i think it's one of the reasons why there are so many people on all sides who are frustrated with what's going on in the uk. it is badly set up to translate what people want into government policy. the extreme focus of absolutely everything, including who gets to be a minister (or an MP in the first place), on small electorally important section of the population.

i had a meeting with a junior minister once, the Minister for Africa (lol), towards the start of the Cameron government, strange but interesting place to end up, sat in this big conference room thing in the foreign office, had to research him before the meeting, and it was totally apparent that he wasn't interested in africa in the slightest. most of what i could find about him was his support for fox hunting. then in the meeting there were discussions about the creation of south sudan, waiting for mugabe to go in zimbabwe. i have no idea how much decision-making power a junior minister has when it comes to this important stuff, but it is ultimately weird that he was in some way involved in making these judgement calls.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
there are a load of different ways to set it up. one of the problems with uk politics is that the basic structures don't change very often. the obvious one being the electoral system in the first place. i think it's one of the reasons why there are so many people on all sides who are frustrated with what's going on in the uk. it is badly set up to translate what people want into government policy. the extreme focus of absolutely everything, including who gets to be a minister (or an MP in the first place), on small electorally important section of the population.

i had a meeting with a junior minister once, the Minister for Africa (lol), towards the start of the Cameron government, strange but interesting place to end up, sat in this big conference room thing in the foreign office, had to research him before the meeting, and it was totally apparent that he wasn't interested in africa in the slightest. most of what i could find about him was his support for fox hunting. then in the meeting there were discussions about the creation of south sudan, waiting for mugabe to go in zimbabwe. i have no idea how much decision-making power a junior minister has when it comes to this important stuff, but it is ultimately weird that he was in some way involved in making these judgement calls.
Maybe there are new and exciting species of foxes to be hunted in South Sudan?

Your anecdote reminds me of an encounter I had about a decade ago in (surprise, surprise) Oxford, where my girlfriend was in the process of finishing her PhD. Like me, she'd gone to an ordinary school, but having gone to Oxford, and one of the older/snobbier colleges at that, had had plenty of opportunity to rub shoulders with the great and the good, or at least the rich and entitled. So we'd arranged to go punting on a nice sunny day, just for extra cliché points, and there was this Pakistani guy there she vaguely knew, who was probably the son of a general or a senior government minister, something like that, but anyway he was quite good fun, all immaculately pressed linen, posher-than-the-Queen accent and vintage champagne, like something out of a Salman Rushdie novel. And he had this mate, English, who was properly posh, I think probably upper-class rather than merely rich; he'd gone to one of the big public schools, can't remember which but if it wasn't Eton then it was probably Harrow or Winchester, then Oxford of course, then he'd been in the army (or Royal Marines or whatever), had spent a long time in Afghanistan, I think. But he was about to start a new job working, I think, for some sort of NGO somewhere in Africa. And he freely admitted that he didn't have the slightest clue about either the country he was going to be working in or the work he was supposed to be doing. It was just a thing he was going to have a crack at, what what? I suppose that's just the unshakeable self-confidence that you end up (along with probably a zillion weird sexual hang-ups) when you've had that kind of background.
 

shakahislop

Well-known member
Maybe there are new and exciting species of foxes to be hunted in South Sudan?

Your anecdote reminds me of an encounter I had about a decade ago in (surprise, surprise) Oxford, where my girlfriend was in the process of finishing her PhD. Like me, she'd gone to an ordinary school, but having gone to Oxford, and one of the older/snobbier colleges at that, had had plenty of opportunity to rub shoulders with the great and the good, or at least the rich and entitled. So we'd arranged to go punting on a nice sunny day, just for extra cliché points, and there was this Pakistani guy there she vaguely knew, who was probably the son of a general or a senior government minister, something like that, but anyway he was quite good fun, all immaculately pressed linen, posher-than-the-Queen accent and vintage champagne, like something out of a Salman Rushdie novel. And he had this mate, English, who was properly posh, I think probably upper-class rather than merely rich; he'd gone to one of the big public schools, can't remember which but if it wasn't Eton then it was probably Harrow or Winchester, then Oxford of course, then he'd been in the army (or Royal Marines or whatever), had spent a long time in Afghanistan, I think. But he was about to start a new job working, I think, for some sort of NGO somewhere in Africa. And he freely admitted that he didn't have the slightest clue about either the country he was going to be working in or the work he was supposed to be doing. It was just a thing he was going to have a crack at, what what? I suppose that's just the unshakeable self-confidence that you end up (along with probably a zillion weird sexual hang-ups) when you've had that kind of background.
did you go punting with Rory Stewart?
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
at least the prime minister, a classics student, has done the research on mad emperors, electing horse to parliament etc
Pretty sure that Caligula's horse was never elected, he simply appointed it a senator... if you believe the legend which is probably not true anyway.
Unless maybe there was another horse in parliament incident that you're referring to... which is perfectly possible given the stupid history of the world. Actually, the other day @suspended was talking about (I think it's called) Rule 34 which I didn't know by name but was very familiar with by principle ie "If it exists, then there is a porn version of it" - I would like to make a wider version of that, not quite a generalisation... or maybe it is, maybe Rule 34 is a special case of Rich's Rule (catchy eh?) "If you can think of some stupid event, something pretty like it probably happened some time". Obviously it needs a few caveats, it only applies in very general terms, you can't say "Has a horse ever won the north Shropshire by-election this century?" but if you merely say "Has a parliament ever had a horse as a member?" then that is acceptable.
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich
he was about to start a new job working, I think, for some sort of NGO somewhere in Africa. And he freely admitted that he didn't have the slightest clue about either the country he was going to be working in or the work he was supposed to be doing. It was just a thing he was going to have a crack at, what what? I suppose that's just the unshakeable self-confidence that you end up (along with probably a zillion weird sexual hang-ups) when you've had that kind of background.
What kind of job was it? I mean, was he digging wells for a remote village or was he making policy decisions? I guess with that kind of background the answer is obvious.

What was Mountbatten's background that meant he was selected as Viceroy or whatever the title was?
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
What kind of job was it? I mean, was he digging wells for a remote village or was he making policy decisions? I guess with that kind of background the answer is obvious.

What was Mountbatten's background that meant he was selected as Viceroy or whatever the title was?
It might have been something to do with the foreign office, now I think about it.

I've just asked Anna about this encounter and she says that he may have been much more switched on than he appeared, but was effecting a combination of ignorance and indifference that's commonly learned as a defence mechanism at that sort of school.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
It's kind of funny/tragic when you look at it really...

Born in Windsor to the prominent Battenberg family, Mountbatten attended the Royal Naval College, Osborne, before entering the Royal Navy in 1916. He saw action during the closing phase of the First World War, and after the war briefly attended Christ's College, Cambridge. During the interwar period, Mountbatten continued to pursue his naval career, specialising in naval communications.
Following the outbreak of the Second World War, Mountbatten commanded the destroyer HMS Kelly and the 5th Destroyer Flotilla. He saw considerable action in Norway, the English Channel and the Mediterranean. In August 1941, he received command of the aircraft carrier HMS Illustrious. He was appointed chief of Combined Operations and a member of the Chiefs of Staff Committee in early 1942, and organised the raids on St Nazaire and Dieppe. In August 1943, Mountbatten became Supreme Allied Commander South East Asia Command and oversaw the recapture of Burma and Singapore from the Japanese by the end of 1945. For his service during the war, Mountbatten was created viscount in 1946 and earl the following year.
In March 1947, Mountbatten was appointed Viceroy of India and oversaw the Partition of British India into India and Pakistan.f

What did he study at Christ's College though? Unless it was "Indian Studies" or something I would say that the above CV seems to be lacking in any kind of specialised expertise that would prepare him to run the world's second biggest country and deal with the withdrawal and partition. Looking at what he did do I'm not saying he was one of those shirking idle rich that make up most of the royal family, I'm just saying the system seems a little silly when you think about it...

"Dashed ticklish business this Raj thing what?"
"Don't worry, we've got just the man for the job"
"Expert is he? Speaks the lingo? Grew up there no doubt, practically native himself"
"There's actually more than one... oh never mind, er no not really, he thought I meant the West Indies at first"
"So, just a particularly competent man?"
"In the navy he was known as the master of disaster"
"Oh... so...?"
"He IS closely related to Her Majesty"
"Oh, you had me worried for a minute then but it's obvious that his noble bearing coupled with the simple fact of his being born of noble blood to lead the lesser people - and how much more so the people of lesser races - will mean that it should be a doddle for him"
"Exactly and... er...."
"And what?"
"Well, if he fucks it right up then it's only India isn't it?"
"Very true"
 
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