Keir Starmer
version
Well-known member
Yeah, this is my point. It's not just about Corbyn. Look at how they treated Miliband too. This stuff only ever seems to apply to the current leader of the Labour party.
john eden
male pale and stale
Yeah the press in this country are massively in favour of the tories, go figure. But please also remember that "Red" Ed was castigated for the sins of his Father and for stabbing his more right wing (and less pro- trade union) brother in the back.
wild greens
Well-known member
Ive spent the last few years working in places i have previously been very unfamiliar with previously, quite substantially out of my comfort zone, and it makes me think more and more that politics needs to be addressed on a local level as opposed to a national one, but with a top lad at the top. Keir is too broad, or trying to be
To Corbyns credit he agreed with this and the canvassing effort was massively increased, which worked dividends. However as a figurehead he was ultimately too niche and scruffy to really break through to the real aspirational majority which is the real swing vote.
I would say that Starmer has took the right approach with portraying himself as more professional etc to gain this portion back, but he has alienated the growth of the youth liberalism, hence Green gains
Its a difficult balance really, they need someone like me who really understands the minutae of shit to get them over the line. Unfortunately my day rate is probably too high
To Corbyns credit he agreed with this and the canvassing effort was massively increased, which worked dividends. However as a figurehead he was ultimately too niche and scruffy to really break through to the real aspirational majority which is the real swing vote.
I would say that Starmer has took the right approach with portraying himself as more professional etc to gain this portion back, but he has alienated the growth of the youth liberalism, hence Green gains
Its a difficult balance really, they need someone like me who really understands the minutae of shit to get them over the line. Unfortunately my day rate is probably too high
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Oh fair enough, I'd misread you.
version
Well-known member
It's the double standard when it comes to the Tories that most frustrates me. I can't get my head round it. Everything people claim to care about seems to go out the window when it comes to them.
I remember talking to someone and them coming out with the usual rubbish about people in poverty buying too many TVs and expecting to go on expensive holidays then in the next breath defending Dominic Raab ignoring his phone whilst Afghanistan was collapsing because " ... people deserve a holiday... ".
I remember talking to someone and them coming out with the usual rubbish about people in poverty buying too many TVs and expecting to go on expensive holidays then in the next breath defending Dominic Raab ignoring his phone whilst Afghanistan was collapsing because " ... people deserve a holiday... ".
IdleRich
IdleRich
I gotta say that, from over here - which is obviously far from the thick of it - had expected Labour to do better, if only cos I had the impression that some people had started to see through the Tories rather than anything positive Labour were offering. Although in fact I have seen a lot of Corbynites who wouldn't vote for Starmer.
It's extraordinary to me the extent to which the party is still fighting a battle which is long decided. I preferred Corbyn too but he's not coming back so surely right now you vote for what is best - or if there is no best, least worst.
It's extraordinary to me the extent to which the party is still fighting a battle which is long decided. I preferred Corbyn too but he's not coming back so surely right now you vote for what is best - or if there is no best, least worst.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Yeah it's all fucking bollocks and totally maddening, isn't it.
wild greens
Well-known member
People do deserve a holiday
If your attack line is why are you on holiday you've already lost
Obviously Raab is a massive cunt but that should be your approach- Raab you're a cunt
Not Raab how is your holiday going
If your attack line is why are you on holiday you've already lost
Obviously Raab is a massive cunt but that should be your approach- Raab you're a cunt
Not Raab how is your holiday going
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
You'd have thought he might have given the embassy in Kabul the number for an underling in case the Taliban took over the country while he was getting his annual fortnight of sangria'n'sunburn in Marbella, though.
wild greens
Well-known member
Of course
But by focussing on the holiday aspect the hand was overplayed and it allows the dialogue the other way
The Labour attack line is shite
But by focussing on the holiday aspect the hand was overplayed and it allows the dialogue the other way
The Labour attack line is shite
IdleRich
IdleRich
The point is they either do or don't... but it's a bit weird for someone to think that it's sinful for a person below a certain wage level to contemplate even the idea of a holiday at any time, while it's fine for Raab to just jet off and shut his dept whatever happens to be going on the world.
wild greens
Well-known member
Well what you're all doing is trying to create a strawman argument about a hypothetical right-wing entity saying "people can't go on holidays if they work in (e.g.) TK Maxx" which doesnt really exist outside of (e.g.) Jan Moir columns
Then juxtaposing it with Dominic Raab shouldn't go on holiday ever in case shit hits the fan somewhere
The Labour argument during this time was "why were you on holiday"
It should have been why dont you pick up your phone you're the defence secretary you tosser
That is "the point"
Then juxtaposing it with Dominic Raab shouldn't go on holiday ever in case shit hits the fan somewhere
The Labour argument during this time was "why were you on holiday"
It should have been why dont you pick up your phone you're the defence secretary you tosser
That is "the point"
version
Well-known member
I'm not creating a strawman, I'm talking about an actual conversation I had with a real person.
And my argument with them wasn't "Why was Dominic Raab on holiday?" or that Dominic Raab should never go on holiday. It was "How can you say everyone deserves a holiday in response to the Raab situation after just ripping into people for wanting to go on holiday?".
And my argument with them wasn't "Why was Dominic Raab on holiday?" or that Dominic Raab should never go on holiday. It was "How can you say everyone deserves a holiday in response to the Raab situation after just ripping into people for wanting to go on holiday?".
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
It's not a strawman and it's by no means restricted to holidays. The people who insist that those on low incomes are only poor because they stupidly spend their money on fripperies instead of basics are the same people who either ignore, or actively defend, MPs (Tory ones, at least) who are caught putting the most ludicrously gratuitous things on their expenses accounts, and attack anyone who thinks this isn't OK as bitter, envious lefty losers.
Naturally, if a Labour MP does the same thing then they're a hypocrite, a champagne socialist, etc. etc.
Naturally, if a Labour MP does the same thing then they're a hypocrite, a champagne socialist, etc. etc.
wild greens
Well-known member
Anecdotal evidence is just a strawman by another name
This type of nonsense is not the core to a substantial argument, "i'm not labour" or not
This type of nonsense is not the core to a substantial argument, "i'm not labour" or not