mvuent

Void Dweller
there are different ways to map the same territory...

you're calling for what in my terminology would be a map of ambient diegesis. whereas the idea for this thread was to draw a map according to formal characteristics, the sort of descriptors mentioned (as sliding scales) in the op.

these two categories are very closely linked, so much so that i often lose track of which side i'm on. but my assumption was that talking in terms of formal characteristics would put us on somewhat less ambiguous, easier-to-agree-upon ground.

audio animation is a tricky concept in that, as your posts have brought to my attention, i tend to use it in two different senses, referring to a mode of listening and to an identifiable formal approach.
 

mvuent

Void Dweller
i think woops is some kind of musical abstract expressionist. he's aware of evocative/representative qualities but he's just decided they're utterly banal, that they're not what really matters. it's a very radical stance and is like the exact inversion of my and luka's perspective. which makes it very weird that we all tend to be such kindred spirits aesthetically.
 
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mvuent

Void Dweller
sometimes his perspective does really weird me out though. it's like in his world if you say a painting is of a tree then that means the viewer is just supposed to go, "oh, i see, it's a tree then eh" and that's it.
 

mvuent

Void Dweller
well i don't want this thread to go on autopilot. people rehashing old opinions and disagreements. hr as it sounds i want us to listen and build a greater shared understanding. at least occasionally. maybe like once every 10 pages.
 

craner

Beast of Burden
Last year I actually made the ultimate anti-Thirdform, anti-Droid, anti-Autechre-“we hate our early cheesy shit”, anti-cartographic ambient playlist and JIM LOVED IT:

 

william_kent

Well-known member
disclaimer: this post is all induced by multiple doses of Havana Club especial rum

The overarching centres are the ashram and the academy. Everything can be mapped in relation to those two poles.

^ I thought @droid was sort of astute here...., although in reality it gets mixed up:

like, my favourite, Eliane Radigue, is from the academy ( GRM ), but her best works sound like they were recorded in an "ashram"... splutter... that's doing her a disservice, they sound like an electronic Tibetan ritual ( and I'm undecided if it's Buddhist or Bon-Po - she'd say Buddhist, but there's something darker and more prime-evil lurking there )


Eliane Radigue - Trilogie De La Mort

her masterwork takes us outside our body, just like the best "space" music, because who needs a body in a zero gravity environment just like you don't have a body when navigating the Bardo after physical death

this is ambient electronic "music" in it's purest sense, just tone and sensation ( as I said in @wektor's seminal thread "the final chapter of sound", it works on ALL levels )

* but, then in the world of "ambient" we also have

dark <--> light
serious <--> fluffy & frivolous
cold <--> warm
space <--> earth
interior <--> exterior
evil <--> good

and combinations and permutations thereof...

in that my favourite ambient musics have a hint of menace, nay, evil about them

true story: once a friend asked if I had ever heard, i.e., hallucinated, music while on "breakthrough" DMT trips and I had to admit that on one occasion it sounded like this, like a soundtrack to a new age crystal shop:


Steve Hillage - Rainbow Dome Musick

( this was the album that set The Orb on their journey to a record deal, etc., )

but at other times the DMT world sounded like this, pure evil


Dalek control room ( 1963 )

( what I heard was my heartbeat & DMT entities chattering, but this BBC Radiophonic Workshop production gives a slight taste of being unable to move due to inhaling for the third time from a glass pipe and stuck in another dimension while still being conscious of reclining on a couch )

yin & yang, innit
 

william_kent

Well-known member
oh fuck it, "Time Machines"

perhaps one of the finest "ambient" recordings

drug space, outside the circles of time


Time Machines: 5-Methoxy-N,N-Dimethyl: (5-MeO-DMT)

Where do you pin this on a map?
 

mvuent

Void Dweller
like, my favourite, Eliane Radigue, is from the academy ( GRM ), but her best works sound like they were recorded in an "ashram"
but you're right, my main interest is the "edge cases": to borrow droid's dichotomy, stuff that's unusually kinetic for ashram music and stuff that's unusually lush for academy music
i know we're not saying exactly the same thing but i think there's something here. there's a sort of elusive "area" of music that's not quite your usual academic experiment nor is it quite your standard hippie fare, but has some of the best aspects of both that ought to be further identified and explored.
 

william_kent

Well-known member
i know we're not saying exactly the same thing but i think there's something here. a sort of elusive "area" of music that's not quite your usual academic experiment nor is it quite your standard hippie fare, but has some of the best aspects of both.

I'm sure we can arrive on a middle ground!

I'm not the best at expressing myself, as I've discovered after signing up to this forum, but, let's say, I despise "crystal shop" ambient and Lucio Berio style "sounds like a ruler being pranged against a desk" academic experiments, but there is a nexus where those sounds collide that is worthy of exploration
 
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