Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
@Linebaugh - why you little...!
what are you reading now?
IdleRich
IdleRich
I'll tolerate a lot. But I think anyone using the sobriquet Dosto should be instantly banned.
i started the old public domain constance garnett translation and then dropped it and got the oliver ready translation from 2014 and i'm really glad i did. it's much less stilted and really vivid, feels like a sweaty nightmare. i have no idea if it's transmitting the true spirit of reading dostoevsky in russian or whatever, the language does feel a bit more midcentury, but that's an unanswerable question anyway. so long story short it probably depends a lot on translator choice.
i never get around to these russian novels bc im a real neurotic about translations. i'll look online for ages reading contradictory opinions on them and reading all the amazon previews. it's a really annoying habit but i can't just pick one. this one is good though.
IdleRich
IdleRich
I've got a friend who won't read anything at all in translation.
And I do understand why... it's related to what you just said Borzoi... but for me you just have to accept all those difficulties and go for it, and of course remember that even when you read someone writing in your language there is still plenty that is inevitably lost in terms of understanding.
That said there are of course bad translations and so on; just cos I'm asserting that there are none that are perfect, it does not at all mean that I don't think some are more imperfect than others.
Slightly different complaint, or issue or whatever - I remember reading an Orhan Pamuk (probably My Name is Red) and struggling with the translation, at least partly cos it used words such as "gotten" which to me were non-neutral and so added an extra and unwelcome layer of translation between the original text and me. Although of course I do recognise that's subjective in itself... in my defence it was a clunky translation of what is already a confusingly written book (or is it?).
And I do understand why... it's related to what you just said Borzoi... but for me you just have to accept all those difficulties and go for it, and of course remember that even when you read someone writing in your language there is still plenty that is inevitably lost in terms of understanding.
That said there are of course bad translations and so on; just cos I'm asserting that there are none that are perfect, it does not at all mean that I don't think some are more imperfect than others.
Slightly different complaint, or issue or whatever - I remember reading an Orhan Pamuk (probably My Name is Red) and struggling with the translation, at least partly cos it used words such as "gotten" which to me were non-neutral and so added an extra and unwelcome layer of translation between the original text and me. Although of course I do recognise that's subjective in itself... in my defence it was a clunky translation of what is already a confusingly written book (or is it?).
version
Well-known member
I'd heard the P&V translations were the benchmark then the tide started to turn and lots of people started saying they were awful and too literal. You can't win.
i don't like the P&V stuff i've sampled at all, it all sounds really clunky to me. one of the essays criticizing them talks about how they change the opening of notes from underground from:
to
which might be more technically accurate in some sense but if you don't get that "spiteful" is a better descriptor for the narrator than "wicked" idk how i can trust you.
to
which might be more technically accurate in some sense but if you don't get that "spiteful" is a better descriptor for the narrator than "wicked" idk how i can trust you.
IdleRich
IdleRich
This sounds like a much better and more succinct way of putting what I was trying to get at. Yeah.. translation is greatly problematic, in fact reading is hugely problematic in itself if you want it to be a perfect transmission of the author's ideas to a reader who will perfectly understand them. And yet, despite all that, lots of people can read books and learn from them and enjoy them and talk about them with other people and gain further ideas and so on and so forth. And this is still true even of books in translation. And that's all despite the fact that it may all be a completely pointless and impossible waste of time from the very start.
IdleRich
IdleRich
We tried this previously... that sounds negative, I mean we chose some books and read them together to the end. Austetlitz was the one that worked best.
I reckon it can certainly work well if we choose the book wisely... that's all important and if we do that it will all fall into place. I vote @jenks as convenor.
I reckon it can certainly work well if we choose the book wisely... that's all important and if we do that it will all fall into place. I vote @jenks as convenor.
luka
Well-known member
You didn't even read the two paragraph Borges story you horrible cunt!
shiels
_
Read and loved the one corpsey posted there and then on my phone before I had to go into about 3 hours of zoom calls.
I’m serious I want to do it. Always interested in joining a book club but never found people I’d like to listen to. We could dutifully start with Retreat, that would make sense.
luka
Well-known member
Borges isgood because the stories are so short everyone can find ten minutes to read one and can even read it off a screen without it being a pain but also they're fun to talk about because it's ideas. Dissensus people are all philistines they don't understand the finer points of writing but they Don't mind ideas.
luka
Well-known member
It's in its death throes, desultory. You can't have a conversation any more. It's just I like this, I don't like that, and dad jokes. Can't remember the last time it felt so moribund. I blame version.