version

Well-known member
Why are you framing it in terms of want? They are involved in making their own ideology are they not? It's not simply a byproduct of domination is it.
Because you worded it as though it was something coming from outside the middle classes and being done to them.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Because you worded it as though it was something coming from outside the middle classes and being done to them.

No I didn't? I said that the inside/outside talk is a useful foil in overpoliticising the middle classes. Obviously, the capital-labour relation forces their consciousness into such an ideological invension. But it's not simply beamed down from on high.
 

version

Well-known member
No I didn't? I said that the inside/outside talk is a useful foil in overpoliticising the middle classes. Obviously, the capital-labour relation forces their consciousness into such an ideological invension. But it's not simply beamed down from on high.
Yeah, but I read "overpoliticising the middle classes," as it coming from elsewhere. It reads as though there's something outside the middle classes with a hand in their over-politicisation.
 

version

Well-known member
Well, it's based on a repeater.

Repeater_Books_company_logo_2017.jpg
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
Yeah, but I read "overpoliticising the middle classes," as it coming from elsewhere. It reads as though there's something outside the middle classes with a hand in their over-politicisation.

It's a bit of both. the capitalist mode of production, and how they rationalise their place within this mode of production. It's linked to given cycles of production and reproduction. You can't expect everyone to be scientific, when talking about politics. It's in these very forms that ideology can crystalise, radical commentator, academic lecturer, even factory worker (because its never a question of pure proles vs the impure rest.) And this was Mark's weakness, that he couldn't see his own ideological positions as needing to be subjected to critique.
 

thirdform

pass the sick bucket
We all make ideology day in, day out. The trick is to understand the signposts of such ideologies and ideas.

This is where theories of ideology generally fail. They see it as nothing but ideas and not linked to modes of thought within certain material constraints. The divine right of kings wasn't simply a wrong idea was it, people thought like that given certain economic conditions for a reason.
 

woops

is not like other people
We all make ideology day in, day out. The trick is to understand the signposts of such ideologies and ideas.

This is where theories of ideology generally fail. They see it as nothing but ideas and not linked to modes of thought within certain material constraints. The divine right of kings wasn't simply a wrong idea was it, people thought like that given certain economic conditions for a reason.
he's right. the problem lies in arguing with @thirdform
 
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