Election 2020
Leo
Well-known member
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I love it that the tally adjustment is actually against Trump.
Of course, the true believers will simply expand the evil Democratic-Paedo-Marxist conspiracy to include this Cyber Ninjas outfit... and then probably demand that an independent company investigate Cyber Ninjas... and then expand the conspiracy again to include that company when it concludes Cyber Ninjas is legit, and...
Of course, the true believers will simply expand the evil Democratic-Paedo-Marxist conspiracy to include this Cyber Ninjas outfit... and then probably demand that an independent company investigate Cyber Ninjas... and then expand the conspiracy again to include that company when it concludes Cyber Ninjas is legit, and...
IdleRich
IdleRich
So reading the actual release Cyber Ninjas have hedged their bets.
Yeah they have confirmed that the hand-count is roughly right (give or take a few votes for Biden) and they steered very clear of saying that there was fraud or that anyone did anything wrong.
Now you might think that if a pro-Trump firm was given access to every single piece of paper and bit of data and so on - every imaginable thing in fact - that related in any conceivable way to the 2020 election in Maricopa County and they spent eight months desperately trying to find anything that hinted even slightly at fraud, yet they couldn't find even the tiniest iota... well you might think that even the nuttiest Trumpleton might start to wonder if there had been fraud after all.
Well, no, obviously we all know that there is literally nothing that could convince the hard-core, but in fact the audit then continued to try and sow a few seeds of doubt amongst the medium-core.
They concluded (if saying that some stuff should maybe be investigated further can legitimately be called a conclusion) that there were a number of dubious votes that crept in somehow - though definitely not by fraud cos they don't want to get sued.
So Ninja Tunes or whatever they're called have pointed out a load of votes which may be dodgy. Sometimes there are two votes or more from the same name, some have people that have voted from different addresses to where they are now and so on. And the number of votes which may potentially be worth looking at - which they are very careful to stress may just have easily gone to Trump as to Biden - is larger than Biden's margin of victory.
So, to my surprise, they have arguably been quite clever here. I guess that thinking up this conclusion Is what actually took so long.
The reason that I say that they have been pretty clever is that they have probably avoided being sued because the claims they have made are not fraud or any cheating, they are really just a very vague hint that something may have gone wrong somewhere. In fact Maricopa County has pointed out that most of the claims are pretty meaningless eg it's completely legal to move after you vote and so the claim about the addresses is just bullshit - but are Maricopa gonna sue? Probably not. And will MAGA accept that explanation? Obviously not.
The best summary of Mo'Wax 's conclusions would be something like "There was no fraud but potentially there are a few issues with some of the votes so we would advise investigating those further" and they are kinda pivoting to pretending that they were never looking for fraud but simply testing the robustness of the system in general.
Dems and people who completed school will hear "There was no fraud and the votes that we rechecked show that Biden did indeed win, in fact by slightly more than previously stated - oh and they made up some bullshit about unsafe votes that is easily explained but which will keep MAGA happily beavering away at for years".
The stupid and wilfully stupid will hear "There were definitely 50,000 dodgy votes which would have been enough to change the victor to Trump, it must have been fraud and, as Sidney Powell said "Fraud vitiates* everything" so they need to decertify tomorrow regardless of whether that exists or not, if they don't then the only solution is revolution!"
So, fair play, I greatly underestimated Cyber Ninjas who really have managed to tread that finest of paths - somehow stirring up more trouble within MAGA despite admitting there was absolutely no fraud and avoiding court action. Obviously completely terrible at election audits but you can't have everything.
Yeah they have confirmed that the hand-count is roughly right (give or take a few votes for Biden) and they steered very clear of saying that there was fraud or that anyone did anything wrong.
Now you might think that if a pro-Trump firm was given access to every single piece of paper and bit of data and so on - every imaginable thing in fact - that related in any conceivable way to the 2020 election in Maricopa County and they spent eight months desperately trying to find anything that hinted even slightly at fraud, yet they couldn't find even the tiniest iota... well you might think that even the nuttiest Trumpleton might start to wonder if there had been fraud after all.
Well, no, obviously we all know that there is literally nothing that could convince the hard-core, but in fact the audit then continued to try and sow a few seeds of doubt amongst the medium-core.
They concluded (if saying that some stuff should maybe be investigated further can legitimately be called a conclusion) that there were a number of dubious votes that crept in somehow - though definitely not by fraud cos they don't want to get sued.
So Ninja Tunes or whatever they're called have pointed out a load of votes which may be dodgy. Sometimes there are two votes or more from the same name, some have people that have voted from different addresses to where they are now and so on. And the number of votes which may potentially be worth looking at - which they are very careful to stress may just have easily gone to Trump as to Biden - is larger than Biden's margin of victory.
So, to my surprise, they have arguably been quite clever here. I guess that thinking up this conclusion Is what actually took so long.
The reason that I say that they have been pretty clever is that they have probably avoided being sued because the claims they have made are not fraud or any cheating, they are really just a very vague hint that something may have gone wrong somewhere. In fact Maricopa County has pointed out that most of the claims are pretty meaningless eg it's completely legal to move after you vote and so the claim about the addresses is just bullshit - but are Maricopa gonna sue? Probably not. And will MAGA accept that explanation? Obviously not.
The best summary of Mo'Wax 's conclusions would be something like "There was no fraud but potentially there are a few issues with some of the votes so we would advise investigating those further" and they are kinda pivoting to pretending that they were never looking for fraud but simply testing the robustness of the system in general.
Dems and people who completed school will hear "There was no fraud and the votes that we rechecked show that Biden did indeed win, in fact by slightly more than previously stated - oh and they made up some bullshit about unsafe votes that is easily explained but which will keep MAGA happily beavering away at for years".
The stupid and wilfully stupid will hear "There were definitely 50,000 dodgy votes which would have been enough to change the victor to Trump, it must have been fraud and, as Sidney Powell said "Fraud vitiates* everything" so they need to decertify tomorrow regardless of whether that exists or not, if they don't then the only solution is revolution!"
So, fair play, I greatly underestimated Cyber Ninjas who really have managed to tread that finest of paths - somehow stirring up more trouble within MAGA despite admitting there was absolutely no fraud and avoiding court action. Obviously completely terrible at election audits but you can't have everything.
Leo
Well-known member
yeah, the goal was never to overturn the election. it was for the "recount" to cast doubt, be recognized by the state as an official audit, and open the door to "other things that need to be looked into" and tightened voter restrictions. at least a half-dozen other states are moving ahead with similar "investigations".
we'll see what impact it has on voters. will voters support these efforts, or will the average voter see all these audits as nonsense and abuse of power by GOP officials, and turn against them. the hardcore MAGA crowd will never give up on them, but it remains to be seen what moderate GOP and average independent voters do.
IdleRich
IdleRich
Interesting this switch from a claim of fraud to just general incompetence and lack of security.... I mean, if thete is no fraud doesn't it mean that there was no steal? I mean, expecting any kind of consistency at this point is optimistic but that does seem kinda fundamental to the whole fucking thing...
Leo
Well-known member
well, most of these GOP officials don't actually believe both, though. the fraud/stolen election bits are just a front, to make Dear Leader feel good. They just use it as a means to an end: tightening voter restrictions, making it harder to vote in democratic strongholds, disenfranchising voters, etc.
Leo
Well-known member
it's despicable, but sometimes I wish the Democrats would become equally disciplined, cunning and ruthless. Maybe it's the same with Labour, not sure, but they're frequently at a disadvantage for being too disorganized, too timid, and too varied in beliefs (in-fighting between progressives and moderates instead of falling into line for the party overall, which is what the GOP does so well).
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Leo
Well-known member
I agree that he doesn't spin things like a typical pol, correct about the "serious look in the camera" bit. but the "most of what he said...was true" is not accurate at all. some of what he says is true, but only when it suits his end goal. saying exaggerated things doesn't get someone off the hook, many exaggerated things are still untrue (exaggerated feelings/opinions -- "this is the greatest song of all time!" -- are fine, exaggerated facts -- "my inauguration had the most people attending ever!" -- are still lies).
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Yeah, I think a better way of phrasing it would be that he isn't beholden to the lies of the establishment, but he's a liar himself. The stuff he lies about doesn't tend to be as damaging or as important as the stuff the establishment lies about, mind you. The business with the election is both damaging and important, but most of his lies are about trivial things related to his ego.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Does this mean that when he said wind turbines give you cancer, they in fact only cause benign growths?