BNP on Question Time
- Thread starter baboon2004
- Start date
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
hmm, posted a reply to this that seems to have been lost :slanted:
My Dad grew up in Cardiff, but I don't know it too well - there's a big Somali community there as well now if I'm correct? Interesting to compare Bristol, Cardiff and Liverpool as (the?) three most notable slave ports in Britain outside London, and the racially mixed legacy of this.
Swansea seemed very white, as the Welsh city I know the best.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
bassnation
the abyss
thanks for that link. it sums up what i feel about how the uk has changed of late. i think most of us thought that the ideas had been roundly defeated, that multi-culturism was now accepted and had won the argument, just like the correspondent in that bbc programme. its a shock to see it gain such mainstream traction once again.
it wasn't for too long, and they caught the guy who sent the letters. Still i have enormous empathy for anyone asian that lives down there really.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
i can imagine you would do.
As an aside, i work in an organisation that does work in prisons, and there's this hare-brained scheme to put all the foreign national prisoners into a few distinct prisons, and one of them was Dartmoor. I just can't imagine what goes on in these people's minds.
Client Eastwood
Well-known member
There's a couple of differences from the racism of the 70's as religion (islamaphobia) as well as race (as in the BNP) is being used as a tool too with the EDL denying they are racist but call for people to stand against the islamification of the UK.
We now see people who were migrants themselves sympathetic to people like the EDL or so they claim. So what they have managed to do is to divide on the basis of colour and religion which was not the case in the 70's.
edit : oh and i was watching the Andrew Marr thing yesterday - the give 'em enough rope and they'll expose themselves as fools doesnt work either. They will turn someone on. But equally I dont think you can deny them the right to media but please put them up with someone is able to raise questions meanfully and probe deeper.
We now see people who were migrants themselves sympathetic to people like the EDL or so they claim. So what they have managed to do is to divide on the basis of colour and religion which was not the case in the 70's.
edit : oh and i was watching the Andrew Marr thing yesterday - the give 'em enough rope and they'll expose themselves as fools doesnt work either. They will turn someone on. But equally I dont think you can deny them the right to media but please put them up with someone is able to raise questions meanfully and probe deeper.
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yes islamification seems to be the main thing, this weird baseless notion that we're going to be forced to live under sharia etc, which to an extent has its roots in fear of terrorism and also anxiety about towns split along different lines.
bassnation
the abyss
agreed, but its just a smokescreen - EDL and WDL supporters have screamed racist abuse at muslims, black youths etc, as well as frequently doing nazi salutes as they march. its more a pr thing, and feeds right into what we were discussing upthread - how the media and politicians have stoked fear of muslims. its a much more palatable message than hating someone because of the colour of their skin, but hatred it is.
they always claim support with 2nd generation migrants - i think its massively overstated and i very much doubt they have much support with the black community say, against poles, or muslims, although i'm sure they'd love to divide and rule.
at the end of the day, i feel as sick to my stomach when i read martin amis (or even hear straw pontificate about the burka as if he's highlighted a dreadful problem, instead of what it is - a disingenous sop to the xenophobes) as i do when i read the words of nick griffin. those liberal racists need to shoulder a significant portion of the blame of what has come to pass.
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
100 per cent spot on. Well, I wouldn't put Jack Straw in the same sentence as 'liberal', but aside from that!
Religion is a smokescreen as you say. How many of the BNP even care much about Christianity?
Client Eastwood
Well-known member
I dont think blacks and asians can politically support such groups bit ive heard them divided on the lines of religion which is a worry as I think feel the religious divisive tool is becoming part of the arsenal of right wing groups.
john eden
male pale and stale
It's about culture and not religion - even the BNP say this. What they are in the business of is establishing and promoting a (white) British identity. Identity is even the name of their magazine.
The problem with multiculturalism is that the BNP seek to crowbar in their ideas about culture alongside all the other ones. So if you can have islamic or black community leaders, then who will speak up for "the (white) indigenous majority"?
This is why anything which racialises an issue or policy plays right into their hands.
bassnation
the abyss
"identity" is the first phase - with "purity" coming later. again, this is common knowledge about their approach. the whole identity thing is much easier to sell than purity, which people recoil from, even now. islamaphobia legitamises racism for people who wouldn't have marched with the NF. nice middle class people, and all that. people argue all the time that the "BNP have changed, we should give them a chance to air their ideas". they haven't changed their goals, just the way they go about achieving them - and every single dunderheaded government intervention on terrorism or monitoring muslims have helped them along the way. thanks a million, you pricks.
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bassnation
the abyss
the white community already has leaders - last time i looked the cabinet was white through and through. and white people aren't indigenous to northern europe, as they well know.
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
Yes, exactly, this is why a couple of years ago on here a few of us were trying to explain why, rhetorically, the left needs to move to the biological model of populations, where race doesn't exist.
That basically blows the BNP and other racists out of the water and leaves them no leg to stand on. Unless you keep insisting on race being a question of "identity", of course...
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Do you have any links to articles/resources that explain this model in basic detail? Thanks - would be useful for some work I'm doing.
nomadthethird
more issues than Time mag
Yup, I'll PM them to you in a sec.
scottdisco
rip this joint please
like when the govt goes to 'Muslim community leaders' (as if "British Muslims" are some monolithic bloc) and listens to often politically quite extreme dubious scrotes speaking up for groups of people they have no right to do so for, thus feeding into stereotypes of anti-Muslim bigotry among the wider population, so then when a small group of extremists marches shouting about the need to impose sharia law, the Daily Express (as it did about four days ago) can lead with a clearly provocative and patently inaccurate front page headline MUSLIMS DEMAND SHARIA as if we're talking about every Briton of, say, Pakistani heritage demanding sharia law in the UK.
John and Nomad are both OTM about the racialising of an issue or policy being meat and drink to the BNP.
vimothy
yurp
Getting pre-1990s data is proving to be a bit of a ball-ache. Here's one graph showing percentage of population born in a foreign country, from 1951-2001. Assuming that this is some kind of proxy for ethnic minorities, I think it shows the trend that you would expect: a steady increase (and of course many migrants have children here who don't appear on this graph):
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Kingdom_since_1922
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Kingdom_since_1922
baboon2004
Darned cockwombles.
Fucking hell, there's a side of Smithfield I never knew.