Tory bastards
- Thread starter crackerjack
- Start date
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I think, or like to think, that most people aren't very keen on these things either. The problem is that they're divided into voters for Labour, the Lib Dems, the Greens and the SNP, and people who are so disillusioned with parliamentary politics in general that they're more likely to draw a spunking cartoon cock on their ballot paper. And with this shitty FPTP system we're stuck with, the Tories will keep winning a majority of seats while they remain the single biggest faction.
subvert47
I don't fight, I run away
It was a majority of 22,949. That was overturned because Labour (2nd 2015-19) voters switched en masse to the Lib Dems (way behind in 3rd/4th 2015-19) and 20,000 Tories stayed at home. They'll return to the fold once Boris Johnson has gone. Or when they've forgotten why. Whichever.
IdleRich
IdleRich
They had 22,000 more votes than everyone else put together? Let's see, this time there were approx 35k cast, so last time they must have had 28,500 and everyone else combined got 6,500 (assuming there were roughly the same number of voters).
I suppose a 34% swing means that they lost around a third of their votes to the other parties which is just under 10k so yeah, I guess that that is what happened along with a smaller turn out. That's insane.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
A majority usually means the margin between the winner and the party/candidate that came second, doesn't it?
You should continue to like to think.
how did this inane argument that just cos you're anti-tory you're against deporting undesirable black and brown people, against drowning refugees, against suppressing protests?
Come on man this is kids stuff, talk to any provincial labour/ex-labour voter and see the utter guff they come out with. Britain doesn't need a far right anyway because you have people who literally believe there are parts of Birmingham under sharia law.
Come on man this is kids stuff, talk to any provincial labour/ex-labour voter and see the utter guff they come out with. Britain doesn't need a far right anyway because you have people who literally believe there are parts of Birmingham under sharia law.
this is what I mean about British hubris though. 'We're not like those yanks, we're far better than that, we'd not fall for such nonsense like q-anon.'
Hate to break it to you but as a people you are not far better than that (is there a people in the world who are far better than that?) Mcdonnell was on this ting last week as well, where liberalism meets sheer aristocratic elitism. Turkey took in 5 million refugees and there have been several horrendous anti-immigrant riots and sentiments as a result but they have thankfully been somewhat irregular until this year where they really did become distressingly common. I think if England took in 5 million refugees we'd be hearing about hate crimes daily in the first year. Have some humility.
Hate to break it to you but as a people you are not far better than that (is there a people in the world who are far better than that?) Mcdonnell was on this ting last week as well, where liberalism meets sheer aristocratic elitism. Turkey took in 5 million refugees and there have been several horrendous anti-immigrant riots and sentiments as a result but they have thankfully been somewhat irregular until this year where they really did become distressingly common. I think if England took in 5 million refugees we'd be hearing about hate crimes daily in the first year. Have some humility.
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also just to add the turkish government has started to ramp up its deportation of refugees since 2019. So this is not a argument of moral equivalence. Turkish citizens are not an ethical people, whatever that is supposed to mean, we share the same pathologies as anyone else. But revealingly, even the Kurdish HDP (which is supposed to represent us according to every abject western leftist moron) had to remain silent on the deportation of Syrian Arabs. I wonder why that is? Because once state policy necessitates it, all you do is interchange who manages it.
and I'm not anti-HDP relative to any other party, so long as we recognise that it is merely the figurehead for the struggle of democracy for us Kurds, and nothing beyond that.
and I'm not anti-HDP relative to any other party, so long as we recognise that it is merely the figurehead for the struggle of democracy for us Kurds, and nothing beyond that.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I know we all love nothing better than imagine ourselves to be surrounded by vile bigots on all sides, with only ourselves and a few select mates forming a little island of decency, but a recent survey showed that more than half of people think refugees should be able to come here, and only 16% disagreed: https://techfugees.com/all_news/12607/
WashYourHands
Cat Malogen
Britain would’ve prolapsed over 5 million though, to the extent of chipping away at the shoreline to get further away from any problems that could come home to roost
5 million is Enoch Powell resurrected, let’s be honest
5 million is Enoch Powell resurrected, let’s be honest
wild greens
Well-known member
1) It has nothing to do with bigotry but all to do with pride, us Turks and Kurds can be more bigoted than most Brits in general. What people think or say means relatively little, its more how they act. What I'm saying is precisely this, own your bigotry because that's not where the problem starts, but the refusal to admit you're no different to everyone else. Liberalism and democracy doesn't give you the moral high ground.
2) You've just picked this out of the hat arbitrarily to uphold that very hubris I was criticising, rather than address my main point, in that anti-toryism does not equate to pro-refugee.
3) if we look at the statistics, we get a far less rosy picture, and that the culture war is essentially much ado about nothing. Which, again, pride above knowledge.
Asylum in the UK: the key numbers
Here are the key statistics about the UK’s asylum system in context
www.theguardian.com
If the political establishment can create a culture war out of this, then there is a very deep pathology in the British psyche which allows them to get away with it.
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Exactly.
IdleRich
IdleRich
I dunno, I'm not really sure on any of the terminology they use there and what a 34 percent swing means. Does it mean that the Tories lost 34 percent of their vote or does it mean the relative change was 34 ie Tories went down by 17 and someone else went up by 17 (or some other combination that adds to 34) and is that someone else the party that won or is it all the other parties? And how do they take account of changing numbers of voters and so on? To me the terminology is far from obvious and the way they just state it like that is pretty useless without a definition.
But in answer to your specific question above I don't think it can mean that - in other words, no - cos for someone to have a majority they must have more than half of the votes, that's what a majority means. So if you have 100 voters and three parties and one got 45, one got 40 and the other got 15 there is no majority. So, sticking with those hundred voters, if one side got a majority of ten then we know that they got more than half the votes cos they got a majority, I'm guessing that it would have to mean that they got 55 and everyone else together got 45 cos... well, cos what else could it mean?
That's why that quote above is extraordinary, it says the Tories had a majority of 22k, so I take that to mean that they had 22k more than everyone else put together... .and then they fell to an overall total of 12k which is a collapse worthy of the England cricket team when Shane Warne was in his pomp.
No no. majority is calculated relative to turnout.
This is why you get liberals decrying people who don't vote as nihilists, without realising that we do not cede mathematical majority to parties. It's a sham, honestly.
So in the case of North Shropshire 38,110 cast votes, which is down from 56,513 in 2019.
in dec 2010, their electorate was 77,673, so a colossal decline, by more than half.
Yet, certain immature characters called me infantile and nihilistic earlier in the year because I didn't go along with their labour party is lesser evil agenda.
And that's where the elitism of liberalism comes into play. Not voting is seen as a personal failure, not structural. Hence we can say it is this very attitude for instance which inevitably manufactures the antivax bogeyman. But if you want to blame over 30000 people in this constituency for not voting, then be my guest. Just don't claim to be a democrat.
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IdleRich
IdleRich
That I get. But I'm asking what it means if X got a ten percent majority. Are you saying that they 55 percent of the votes cast?