vinyl purists: you are boring. please stop.

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john eden

male pale and stale
also, I hear that some people are playing repress vinyl these days and not the original JA issues? It's an outrage!
 

alex

Do not read this.
Cant speak for when CDJ’s were released, as I was probably a yout, but I cannot see why people would say that RE: CDJ’s?

If the only aspect’s of the technology that make it “unnatural” are the looping and cue-ing cues, I don’t see how that is a valid statement?, fair enough the looping buttons were probably a new thing, but how does live auto-cuing make the process sound un-natural? Do you usually hear the DJ drop the needle on the tip of the 12” , then hear him find the first beat?

But Zhao, are you really telling me that you think mixing via ableton sounds just as natural as a DJ using Serato/CDJ’s?

And who would you rather book, some Ableton DJ who has copped a load of tunes of limewire, or a vinyl DJ who bought all the presses when they 1st landed, on white label, which he walked to the shop to buy. (Try to see that choice as a less pedantic one)
 

ether

Well-known member
I can see the appeal of ableton for live performance, for a kind of on-the-fly improvisation, but i rarely ever see it used creatively to dj other peoples tracks, lets face it we've all seen so many tedious techno or house sets where somebody crouched over a mac book playing a pre-mixed and edited set, -i really hated that fucking laptop/techno auteur thing of people playing ableton sets of there own tunes for like two hours, that seemed to be in vogue a couple of years ago, loads of bate effects processing and no swing, really metronomic, it just made everything sound so samey. I know from anecdotal evidence that some laptop dj's turn up and hit space bar and move a few faders about, for me theres no real tension their, or any strong performative element when it comes to dj-ing inside the box.
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
The difference with cd decks though is that you're still controlling the tempo in an analogue fashion even though the media is digital

manual beat-matching = the real authentic art of DJing!

yawn-1.jpg
 

alex

Do not read this.
Okay then, even if you are to dismiss those point’s as tired jaded arguments from Vinyl/Serato/CDJ DJ’s who “just couldn’t let go”, would you say you prefer to hear a set on ableton, or on vinyl?

I for one have never seen a DJ play straight beatport downloads/tunes (basically not his own beats), as I wouldn’t stay in the club I have paid/walked into. What is the point when there is probably someone up the road mixing ACTUAL records?? The one’s I have stayed for, where a DJ is re-editing, live remixing etc... have been, well, boring to be honest. Unless you have been skanking your arse off to that producers tunes for the last year, and know all the beats off by heart, and can APPRECIATE them being live re-edited and remixed, I would find the whole set a little alienating. (That and the fact the P.C IZ BEATMACHING IT AL 4 U !! lulz)
 

nomos

Administrator
well here's me:

#1 before i was playing out i made a name for myself with ableton studio mixes but they were more constructed than mixed. tight, layered, well-planned, etc.

#2 i've always been a bit shit at beat matching and i've seen some boring as fuck sets that were mixed perfectly.

#3 i've never had money to waste on dubplates or my own CD decks. i get really sick of computers but it's the best option for me atm.

so i'm a bit the opposite of martyn. i feel like people might be expecting hear something closer to my studio mixes, not some shoddy turntable job. but i hate that frenetic, chop-cause-you-can approach that people end up doing with ableton because they think they need to to justify their medium.

i just try to make a dance go off (no complaints so far). first priority is selection. then, if i'm on the computer i'll try to do some things that i personally couldn't do with decks, just terms of timing, etc. that and focus on fades, eq, effects.

in the end, people shouldn't be looking at how i'm playing. i think only dj nerds really do that. if you like the sounds, then dance. it's pretty simple.
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
would you say you prefer to hear a set on ableton, or on vinyl?

I would say i prefer to hear a well sequenced, paced, and structured set of music i would not likely hear anywhere else, from a dj who does his homework in terms of research, with deep knowledge about the music, who draws unexpected and surprising lines between disparate elements, hopefully both exhilarating as well as educational.

could give a fuck what he uses.
 

alex

Do not read this.
Well that is fine and dandy, that reply is nothing less than what I expected after re-reading my post.

I think if someone put a set together as well as you have mentioned above, I would respect them more if it were on CDJ’S/Vinyl/Serato, than I would Ableton.

I also like the “random” element that CDJ’s & Vinyl brings, although I could be talking out of my arse here as I have never used Ableton, but if you already have a mix sorted, playlist all set out, and all planned your fucking effects and whatever, how hard is it to add a tune in that you didn’t expect to play? Like for instance if it isnt going “off” as well as hoped, the Vinyl/CDJ-er can draw for the “crowd pleaser/deep disher” and completely change the direction of a DJ Set, whereas the Ableton user has his playlist all sorted for the night...

Also,

“oi selecta, beg u wheel it”
“oh sorry I cant im on Ableton”
“fag”

Is that a familiar situation Zhao? Or can you re-wind on Ableton (I seriously don’t know if you can or not)
 

zhao

there are no accidents
well here's me:

that's cool. if it works it works. i'd prolly come see you since you seem to know your music and i'd probably have a good time as well as walk away with some ideas i didn't have before.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
I also like the “random” element that CDJ’s & Vinyl brings, although I could be talking out of my arse here as I have never used Ableton, but if you already have a mix sorted, playlist all set out, and all planned your fucking effects and whatever, how hard is it to add a tune in that you didn’t expect to play? Like for instance if it isnt going “off” as well as hoped, the Vinyl/CDJ-er can draw for the “crowd pleaser/deep disher” and completely change the direction of a DJ Set, whereas the Ableton user has his playlist all sorted for the night...

Also,

“oi selecta, beg u wheel it”
“oh sorry I cant im on Ableton”
“fag”

Is that a familiar situation Zhao? Or can you re-wind on Ableton (I seriously don’t know if you can or not)

plenty of randomness with the way i do it: there are like 3000+ tunes in there. and i select on the fly.

rewind is no problem: copy the tune to another slot, hit the backscratch sample and hit the copy.
 

nomos

Administrator
“oi selecta, beg u wheel it”
“oh sorry I cant im on Ableton”
“fag”
this was my one complaint about an otherwise fantastic funky gig last year. it's rare to have an mc in canada and on this occasion i couldn't do rewinds because of ableton (without doing some convoluted thing using 'rewind' samples). but it was that or give up playing a bunch of tunes that no one else had.
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
i just try to make a dance go off (no complaints so far). first priority is selection. then, if i'm on the computer i'll try to do some things that i personally couldn't do with decks, just terms of timing, etc. that and focus on fades, eq, effects.

in the end, people shouldn't be looking at how i'm playing. i think only dj nerds really do that. if you like the sounds, then dance. it's pretty simple.

Yeah, I feel you on this actually. Watching the DJ should only be one part of the experience, at most. Even with real grandstand DJs like EZ or Carl Cox, the idea of the whole show seems to be maximising crowd response more than anything.
 

Tentative Andy

I'm in the Meal Deal
Retardo question but w/r/t to rewinds on laptop can't you just stop the music? Obv it's not as dramatic, but often enough in clubs I can't hear the wheel sound anyway.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
Yeah, I feel you on this actually. Watching the DJ should only be one part of the experience, at most. Even with real grandstand DJs like EZ or Carl Cox, the idea of the whole show seems to be maximising crowd response more than anything.

theo parish said something to that effect. i paraphrase:
"don't look at me. i'm not your monkey. if you want a show, go see a rock band. a dj is not a band. it's about telling a story, it's about the music. so listen. feel. and dance."

Retardo question but w/r/t to rewinds on laptop can't you just stop the music? Obv it's not as dramatic, but often enough in clubs I can't hear the wheel sound anyway.

just start again from the beginning with no pause or make a copy of it, and mix into it again at the desired place. i do sometimes keep a few scratch samples handy but it's like pure novelty stuff that almost never gets used.
 

mms

sometimes
false opposition? like the time someone said "techno largely comes from Euro-synth"

exactly, as no one actually ever said that ever.

Again it was something you invented in order to rant off against a false opposition, as anyone who pays a cursory glance over a good number of your posts will realise is something of a trait of yours.
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
exactly, as no one actually ever said that ever.

Again it was something you invented in order to rant off against a false opposition, as anyone who pays a cursory glance over a good number of your posts will realise is something of a trait of yours.

Wasn't Detroit techno largely inspired by European synth pop/kraftwerk? I suppose that might not be so much the case with the Moodymann stuff.

from this page: http://www.dissensus.com//showthread.php?9773-House-09!/page6&highlight=house

you were wrong that time.

you are wrong this time, as the people who think Ableton mixing is fake have stepped up and voiced their opinions -- no i did not make them up.

just like all the other times you have been willfully ignorant of the very real and concrete issues i have brought up.
 

Alfons

Way of the future
Zhao, you come of (to me anyways) as having a big chip on your shoulder about other people thinking what you do is fake / not real / etc. Why are you so worried about other people think about your craft and choice of tools? If you find them good and suffiicient for your dj'ing, why the hell do you care so much about other peoples opinions and reasons that obviously boil down to personal preference and aren't right or wrong in any objective sense.
 
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