"Owning"

[Slothrop]

what you have done is call me a string of names such as "cretin", "uneducated", "prick", infer that i am stupid ("are you still trying to understand From Hell?") ---- all in an attempt to shut down discussion, and silence the non-white who cries racism.

Yeah, I noticed how Droid keeps denying the existence of racism against people of asian descent. Like the bit where he says that he's experienced it himself.

I'm sure it would be easy - and probably instructive - to find a whole bunch examples of straight up prejudice, ignorance, and racism from modern popular culture.

It's just that that particular comic is a bad example.

 

[nomadthethird]

That blackface skit wasn't ironic though, that's the thing.

Those guys were playing it pretty straight.

Does it matter?

People were still getting lynched when blackface was ok, ffs.

Read a goddamn history book.

 

[scottdisco]

I heard Chris Morris actually thinks child abuse is totally hilarious in and of itself...

now now

Sorry, that was a gratuitously shit-stirring post. My bad.

actually Tea, it certainly wasn't. it made a point and was funny, so you were bang OTM w that observation.

but that visceral distaste is sort of the idea.

very well put. (it certainly worked on me; look at my reaction a few pages ago.)

 

[Slothrop]

I've heard this same shit about once a day every day from the anti-immigration lobbyists.

But but... I married a woman who was 1/24 Mexican! Therefore I can't be racist.

He's not saying "therefore I can't be racist". He's saying "I'm not denying the existence of racism in modern society (because in fact I've experienced it myself)."

If you can't see the difference then you must be trying quite hard...

 

[nomadthethird]

Right... so as long as something "works", by which we mean it serves to evoke "visceral distaste" in white folk about racism-past, it's ok.

Basically, if it's instructive for the white folk, anything goes.

Iron-clad logic there.

 

[baboon2004]

I did read it, you said that 'its not exactly' the same thing as saying your friend is black... so you don't exactly agree with Zhao that its just an excuse for racism?

Am I to take it then that you agree that I'm not Asian enough to have been called 'chink' for ten years?

i think you have the entire right to be upset, 100 per cent, about the racism you suffered - sorry if my previous post wasn't clear. But please don't misquote: 'it's not the same thing, obv' (what I said) and 'it's not exactly the same thing' (what i didn't say) are entirely different.

On a complete tangent, my Mum was quite frequently asked if she was Chinese cos of the shape of her eyes too, when she was younger in 70s England. Made me think about how little I know of her side of the family (cos she never tells me) - it's quite possible that I could have a Chinese ancestor somewhere along the line...

 

[Slothrop]

Does it matter?

People were still getting lynched when blackface was ok, ffs.

Read a goddamn history book.

What on earth is your point? NOONE said that the blackface routine was in any way acceptable.

 

[nomadthethird]

He's not saying "therefore I can't be racist". He's saying "I'm not denying the existence of racism in modern society (because in fact I've experienced it myself)."

If you can't see the difference then you must be trying quite hard...

Umm... that's not what I was addressing. What I was addressing was his jump to the fact that he was in fact distantly Asian, which was supposed to prove that he couldn't possibly be wrong about the racist implications of a cartoon. That's the same thing. Sometimes the lobbyists claim that their great, great, great grandfather was Mexican instead. Or that their best friend is black. Or queer. Or whatnot.

I said wife because it's funnier that way.

And I think anyone who tries to defend those cartoons is racist. I don't care how many times someone mistook them for Asian.

 

[nomadthethird]

What on earth is your point? NOONE said that the blackface routine was in any way acceptable.

Ummm...

Does it matter whether the men in that video played blackface "straight" or not? It's racist either way. Mostly because of the very serious historical implications of blackface.

That's my point.

 

[Slothrop]

Umm... that's the same thing.

What, not denying the existence of racism in modern society is the same thing as being racist?

 

[zhao]

Yeah, I noticed how Droid keeps denying the existence of racism

had no intention of bringing this up but since you mention it:

it has certainly happened before. this is the same man who insist that the world view of the average person on the street, where ever it may be, is not influenced by Western-centric and Euro-centric attitudes, and that all are well aware of the Hasidic and Afrian origins of European classical civilization.

 

[reeltoreel]

Does it matter?

People were still getting lynched when blackface was ok, ffs.

Read a goddamn history book.

No, it doesn't matter, not at all. The use of racist tropes for comedy value is absolutely despicable, at all times.

I just wanted to separate essentially overt, open racism of the kind displayed on that Today Show episode from the racism that Zhao was pointing out with his post, which I thought was of a different kind. It seemed to be a distinction worth making and I'm sorry it wasn't clear.

 

[zhao]

What, not denying the existence of racism in modern society is the same thing as being racist?

erase the first "not" and you are pretty close.

denying the existence of racism in modern society is certainly in the same ball park as being racist.

 

[nomadthethird]

What, not denying the existence of racism in modern society is the same thing as being racist?

No, it's already been pointed out what was racist in this thread.

Jumping to the "but I've been called a chink!" defense is fucking ridiculous.

Any American has seen all this before, a thousand times.

This entire thread reads like it's excerpted from the fucking Strom Thurmond Handbook to Race Relations and Rhetoric.

 

[scottdisco]

Right... so as long as something "works", by which we mean it serves to evoke "visceral distaste" in white folk about racism-past, it's ok.

Basically, if it's instructive for the white folk, anything goes.

Iron-clad logic there.

OK OK, some very careless phrasing from moi (to say the least).

 

[matt b]

This entire thread reads like it's excerpted from the fucking Strom Thurmond Handbook to Race Relations and Rhetoric.

Yep, your assumption that gangster= black on page one was despicable.

 

[nomadthethird]

Hey Zhao, you think the word "yo" is scary because of capitalism and gangs, etc.?

I mean, I know white men kill the majority of people who are killed in this country everyday (especially when it comes to women getting killed-- mostly whites doing that), but I should probably still consider gangs like the biggest threat to Whitey that ever existed, right?

Yeah. I thought so, too.

 

[nomadthethird]

Yep, your assumption that gangster= black on page one was despicable.

Is this some kind of joke? Like seriously. It must be a joke. I just can't imagine that a person would say this with a straight face...except maybe Rush Limbaugh, who says it constantly.

This is the (what is it now? third, fourth?) "reverse racism" argument I've seen here and it won't and never will wash.

The vast majority of gang members ARE black, especially in the U.S. Acknowledging this is in no way racist, because economic and social inequity is what drives minorities into a life of crime. It is, in fact, racist to try to elide this fact, as if urban crime is an equal opportunity employer. It isn't.

 

[matt b]

Is this some kind of joke? Like seriously. It must be a joke. I just can't imagine that a person would say this with a straight face...except maybe Rush Limbaugh, who says it constantly.

This is the (what is it now? third, fourth?) "reverse racism" argument I've seen here and it won't and never will wash.

The vast majority of gang members ARE black, especially in the U.S. Acknowledging this is in no way racist, because economic and social inequity is what drives minorities into a life of crime. It is, in fact, racist to try to elide this fact, as if urban crime is an equal opportunity employer. It isn't.

projecting onto woebot that when he sees the word 'gangs' he is visualising black Americans is an assumption no?

That response has nothing to do with the facts of gang membership or their ethnic make up.

The same regarding the reaction to the Moore comic- I would suggest reading it before shouting 'racist'. a lot.

 

[nomadthethird]

Acknowledging that urban violence is by and large a problem of minorities and specifically blacks is in no way tantamount to claiming that "all black men are violent thugs".

If that's what you're on about.