Shoegaze

[Benny Bunter]

people tend to point to Loveless as an unparalleled studio achievement--which i wouldn't necessarily argue with, but to me Isn't Anything just sounds like one album among others of its ilk (and possessing only a few great tracks in my opinion).

.

One thing that makes Isn't anything stand out for me is Colm's drumming, which was pretty fierce and inventive on some of the tracks. That side of the band definitely got lost on Loveless. Most of the other shoegaze bands just recycled those ploddy Spacemen 3/JAMC rhythms, which can get quite boring.

 

[michael]

One thing that makes Isn't anything stand out for me is Colm's drumming, which was pretty fierce and inventive on some of the tracks. That side of the band definitely got lost on Loveless. Most of the other shoegaze bands just recycled those ploddy Spacemen 3/JAMC rhythms, which can get quite boring.

A mate was enthusing about the 33 1/3 book about the making of Loveless last week and said something about the drummer being homeless and not being able to play on most of the sessions for Loveless. Sick from something? I forget. Anyway, I'd always wondered why the drumming changed so much between albums and that seems like a pretty obvious reason. I guess they're sampled? Very mechanical-sounding, I reckon...

 

[connect_icut]

Yes, the drumming on loveless is Colm's playing but sampled and sequenced by Kevin and Colm. Probably best not to go into precisely why Colm was too "sick" to play on the album. None of our business, I'm sure.

Beginning to wonder how usefully I can contribute to this thread, as - to me - everything MBV did from You Made Me Realise to Loveless is markedly better than all other music ever recorded, full stop and any claim to the contrary seems offensive and ludicrous. In other words, I don't have much perspective here.

Also, while I really like stuff like Jefre Cantu-Ledesma, it's just Fennesz, innit? To me, the only records that really seem like a continuation of what Kevin Shields started on Loveless are Fennesz's Endless Summer and The Third Eye Foundation's Ghost. The guy who wrote that 33 1/3 book (which is pretty shit, BTW) also mentioned Rafael Toral's Waveform (is that what it was called?)

 

[Dunninger]

Also, while I really like stuff like Jefre Cantu-Ledesma, it's just Fennesz, innit? To me, the only records that really seem like a continuation of what Kevin Shields started on Loveless are Fennesz's Endless Summer and The Third Eye Foundation's Ghost. The guy who wrote that 33 1/3 book (which is pretty shit, BTW) also mentioned Rafael Toral's Waveform (is that what it was called?)

I wouldn't say it's just Fennesz, although there are obviously similarities in the sound. For me 'Endless Summer' is mostly a music for guitar and laptop, that's loaded with nostalgia, emotion triggered by memories, whereas 'Love Is A Stream' is much more in the emotional now, blazing loudspeakers and all that.

 

[connect_icut]

I wouldn't say it's just Fennesz, although there are obviously similarities in the sound. For me 'Endless Summer' is mostly a music for guitar and laptop, that's loaded with nostalgia, emotion triggered by memories, whereas 'Love Is A Stream' is much more in the emotional now, blazing loudspeakers and all that.

I think it's more like the later Fennesz stuff - Venice and Black Sea, especially - where things got a bit more drifty and reverby. More post-Slowdive abstraction than post MBV, really. A lot of Tim Hecker's stuff gives me the same feeling. Anyway, if you like this kind of stuff, I'd highly recommend Sincere Void by Grasslung, which actually came out on Cantu-Ledesma's label. The first track is an outrageous Fennesz rip but the album as a whole is def worth hearing. Here's a song:

http://bubblegumcage3.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/03-tired-of-remembering.mp3

 

[CrowleyHead]

I believe the big thing was that Colm had a nervous breakdown before the beginning of Loveless? Which is why a lot of the drumming was programmed.

 

[connect_icut]

I believe the big thing was that Colm had a nervous breakdown before the beginning of Loveless? Which is why a lot of the drumming was programmed.

I think that Kevin has said that Colm had a bit of a breakdown when his girlfriend dumped him, then got really ill and lost the use of his legs. It's not for me to speculate on what was really going on in Colm's life but as a long time MBV fan, I must advise you never to believe a single word Kevin Shields says. That's the worst thing about that 33 1/3 book - it parrots a lot of Kevin's "proclamations" as if they're the gospel truth.

Anyway, as far as I know, it's not just the drums that are sampled. They also sampled a lot of their own guitar sounds and vocals, then looped them or played them through MIDI keyboards. I love the way Kevin stuck to the basic building blocks of the rock band but used digital technology to stretch them into all sorts of new shapes. Similar to what Disco Inferno did, in a way. Definitively post-rock, in the original sense.

 

[Dunninger]

I know what you mean. In the end it's just a whole field of people who took the noise of overdriven guitars and used it to make something that's neither rocking-out-rock nor Noise with a capital N. Re: copying Fennesz, there's a track on a recent Kevin Drumm CDR titled 'This Sounded Like A Bad Fennesz Rip So I Bagged It... Until Now'
And thanks for the Glasslung recommendation, although I knew that already

BTW, there was a nice Kevin Shields interview on Buddyhead years ago, can't find it on the site now but archive.org still has it:
http://web.archive.org/web/20041010045600/buddyhead.com/music/kevinshields/

 

[mistersloane]

people tend to point to Loveless as an unparalleled studio achievement--which i wouldn't necessarily argue with, but to me Isn't Anything just sounds like one album among others of its ilk (and possessing only a few great tracks in my opinion). if you follow the trajectory of that area of rock/pop through the 80s you can see the shoegaze sound developing long before Loveless ever hits the ground. Jesus and the Mary Chain dropped Psychocandy in 1985. 4AD and the Cocteau Twins span the 80s.

i'm interested in the chronology

MBV were culturally important because they were the first UK drippy indie band to be seen to go 'heavy' in the way that the US bands did. "Isn't Anything' was culturally important cos of the free 7 inch with it which sampled Public Enemy. I never liked them much, I like the sounds but hate all the weedy vocal stuff.

Chronologically in the UK you had a few different sounds coming together - the 4AD thing, AR Kane were very, very big with the NME -, the US Sonic Youth/Dinosaur Jr thing and the UK Spacemen/Loop thing, combined with a few pubs that all the journalists and bands used to drink in in Camden. That's the way I saw it all anyway, if it's any help.

 

[MatthewH]

Colm is the Ringo of Shoegaze - i.e. the drummer that held back the best band of its genre.

Brad Laner's been on so much good stuff. Surely everybody's forgotten Lusk but their Free Mars album is still pretty damn good.

 

[rivetrenuck]

I am crazy for Medicine!!!!!

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/96qQ6y_QpIc" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

Angelic

 

[connect_icut]

Wasn't Brad Laner also in Savage Republic?

 

[rivetrenuck]

http://killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=4322

A write up about My Bloody Valentine from the guys in the scene and a bootleg or a demo tape.


Just had a listen to Fennesz, His work reminds me of Minimalists from the "12k" label, such as Taylor Deupree and the rest.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/CUR7mFmoQsU" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

There is another really good track whiich i couldnt find on Youtube, Its on Spotify though.

Taylor Deupree - Living Flowers

sweetest song ever, but in my opinion this is not really shoegazing music, from the attitude to the sounds.

 

[jenks]

anyone mention Disappears yet?

 

[connect_icut]

I'm 100% addicted to the new Seefeel right now:
http://bubblegumcage3.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/06-rip-run.mp3
http://bubblegumcage3.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/dead-guitars.mp3

I'm also going to attempt to post YouTube videos for all the songs on my two "Dream Rock" compilations - actual promos where possible, live clips, fan videos or plain audio where not. Here's the first one:

http://bubblegumcage3.com/2011/02/0...n-videos-the-jesus-mary-chain-you-trip-me-up/

Any help y'all could give me digging up a few of the obscurer tracks would be much appreciated. For instance, I'm pretty sure there was a promo for A.R. Kane's "Baby Milk Snatcher" but I can't find it.

 

[Chris]

would def recommend Jefre Cantu-Ledesma’s album "Love is a Stream" here… it’s a drone/ambient album but texturally and harmonically it’s very shoegazey. was one of my favorite releases from last year

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uCI8exp5JHc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[connect_icut]

would def recommend Jefre Cantu-Ledesma’s album "Love is a Stream" here… it’s a drone/ambient album but texturally and harmonically it’s very shoegazey. was one of my favorite releases from last year

We've already talked about this, haven't we? I might as well reiterate my original position: It's just Fennesz, innit? I still like it, though.

That Seefeel album, on the other hand... That's on some new shit. If you're reading this thread, you need to hear that album. Srsly.

 

[Chris]

ah so you did, nice (could've sworn I read the second page, but when you're multitasking ). agreed on Cantu-Ledesma having a post-MBV sound and Fennesz post-Slowdive. and yeah, anything on Jefre's label is worth checking out

no mention of Windy and Carl yet?

also, have to mention Grouper, although she’s particularly relevant to this thread live. one of the most beautiful and definitely more shoegazey shows I caught last year was hers at On Land

 

[skull kid]

i wish slowdive had done more stuff like this

http://www.discogs.com/Slowdive-5-EP/master/9485

laser-precise ambient techno dub w/ beautiful gazey synth and guitar textures

i can't think of many guitar bands who were able to so effortlessly assimilate into techno

 

[Robsku]

Oh come on. Let's not retread the whole MBV inventors of shoegaze thing cos it blatantly isn't true - the first wave of bands had a whole host of influences from the obvious (Cocteau Twins, Sonic Youth, JMC) to the less so (Eno, Gram Parsons, Lee Hazelwood).

If that first wave were so intent of ripping off MBV why didn't they sound like them; Slowdive were closer to Cocteaus, Lush to Throwing Muses, Ride where simply a traditional band with noisy accoutrements (like House of Love and JMC before them) and Pale Saints had a sound all of their own.

Also remember that Loveless the supposed zenith of the sound came out in 92 by which time all those bands had been in operation for some time. The MBV of Isn't Anything and You Made Me Realise were far more aggressive and visceral.

I should add that MBV were my absolute favourite band back in the day but now when I reach for that era and sound I'm much more likely to play A.R.kane or Loop.