shakahislop

Well-known member
It doesn't actually surprise me that much. When I was doing a lot of clubbing in 2017/18, I was hanging out a bit with young people and it becomes clear that a lot of them didn't really enjoy clubs as social spaces, basically fraught with issues for them, for various reasons.

I think it's harder these days to enjoy wilful abandon in the way you might need or want to. The whole social media after party checkup, like how people would do these full on deconstruction of the night.

There are still tons of young people going out and having it in various ways, I just don't think it's happening in clubs in quite the same way as it was 20 years ago.
would like to hear more about this, in particular the first and second paragraphs
 

catalog

Well-known member
So re 1st para: I met a few people who felt unsafe in a club environment cos eg they didn't like loud dark places with lots of people. It made them anxious. Like they were more comfy in a quieter, more controlled environment?

Also others who didn't like some of the sonic/visual content, found it offensive.

I mean I can go into more detail I suppose.

It wasn't everyone, don't get me wrong, but for me as, at the time, someone pushing 40, I found it very surprising that early 20s ppl were like this.

2nd para: this did my head in and in all fairness I was as guilty for it myself, but what I mean is that I was on every social at the time, I mean twitter, Facebook, insta. And when you went out, it became this thing the next day that you would scroll through all the bits people had posted about the night before and there was often some nitpicking point that people latched on, making something of nothing, then it all gets very serious very quick, public pile ons etc.

It got to be so that with some nights you went to, there was all these reams of advance information about safer spaces policies, how there would be people with name badges who you could ask for help etc.

I think all that added to the anxiety felt by the people in para 1.

Anyway, i ended up deleting all the socials in 2018 cos it was too much and by then it was also clear that the 3rd summer of love was not really happening.

I hope that explains things a bit more
 

version

Well-known member
It wasn't everyone, don't get me wrong, but for me as, at the time, someone pushing 40, I found it very surprising that early 20s ppl were like this.
There's much more awareness about mental health these days and people are under a lot of stress. I know at least ten people irl with anxiety/panic attacks and I wouldn't be surprised if it's even more common among younger people.
 

catalog

Well-known member
I've oscillated a bit around how I feel on this, cos basically half thd time you don't know how serious things are, but the other quite noticeable thing was that most of the kids I was seeing about, they were also skint a lot of the time, not eating properly, had been chucked out of home or were couch surfing, struggling a lot to pay uni fees and all that. Basically all these things I took completely for granted.

That was the other palpable feeling which felt different to my first time around.
 

version

Well-known member
There are people who are too sensitive and a bit embarrassing or annoying, but you'd have to actually get to know them to really make that call as you never really know what's going on with someone and they may have good reason to be the way they are.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leo

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
So re 1st para: I met a few people who felt unsafe in a club environment cos eg they didn't like loud dark places with lots of people. It made them anxious. Like they were more comfy in a quieter, more controlled environment?

Also others who didn't like some of the sonic/visual content, found it offensive.

I mean I can go into more detail I suppose.

It wasn't everyone, don't get me wrong, but for me as, at the time, someone pushing 40, I found it very surprising that early 20s ppl were like this.

2nd para: this did my head in and in all fairness I was as guilty for it myself, but what I mean is that I was on every social at the time, I mean twitter, Facebook, insta. And when you went out, it became this thing the next day that you would scroll through all the bits people had posted about the night before and there was often some nitpicking point that people latched on, making something of nothing, then it all gets very serious very quick, public pile ons etc.

It got to be so that with some nights you went to, there was all these reams of advance information about safer spaces policies, how there would be people with name badges who you could ask for help etc.

I think all that added to the anxiety felt by the people in para 1.

Anyway, i ended up deleting all the socials in 2018 cos it was too much and by then it was also clear that the 3rd summer of love was not really happening.

I hope that explains things a bit more
As a dad living in a small provincial city, I'd give my right arm for the chance to be in a loud, dark space with lots of people now and then. :(
 

catalog

Well-known member
actually after reading the mark fell thread again, i think the other thing is that a lot of people are very fussy over what they want in a club environment. that's why i loved the white hotel so much, cos they seemed to take that into account and gave you a good variety over 8 hours.

but honestly, the promotoers have to post set times, it has to be very exact or ppl complain, there's comments all over the shop.
 

shakahislop

Well-known member
So re 1st para: I met a few people who felt unsafe in a club environment cos eg they didn't like loud dark places with lots of people. It made them anxious. Like they were more comfy in a quieter, more controlled environment?

Also others who didn't like some of the sonic/visual content, found it offensive.

I mean I can go into more detail I suppose.

It wasn't everyone, don't get me wrong, but for me as, at the time, someone pushing 40, I found it very surprising that early 20s ppl were like this.

2nd para: this did my head in and in all fairness I was as guilty for it myself, but what I mean is that I was on every social at the time, I mean twitter, Facebook, insta. And when you went out, it became this thing the next day that you would scroll through all the bits people had posted about the night before and there was often some nitpicking point that people latched on, making something of nothing, then it all gets very serious very quick, public pile ons etc.

It got to be so that with some nights you went to, there was all these reams of advance information about safer spaces policies, how there would be people with name badges who you could ask for help etc.

I think all that added to the anxiety felt by the people in para 1.

Anyway, i ended up deleting all the socials in 2018 cos it was too much and by then it was also clear that the 3rd summer of love was not really happening.

I hope that explains things a bit more
thanks for this catalog. having hung out with some early-20s americans recently, it is pretty interesting to think about what that experience must be like, of being that kind of age and all of this safer space etc thing at clubs be just the way things are, rather than something that is new. i mean, the first time i saw it (in nyc, at elsewhere i think) i was pretty blown away and it just looked outright like a good thing. but must be strange to be out and constantly wondering if you're making one infraction or another.

i mean I am speculating a lot from a fairly small number of interactions with that kind of demographic. but i am interested in what happens to social interaction of all kinds in the current popular discourse where so many behaviours and actions are moving from being acceptable to unacceptable. i mean 'interested', not necessarily critical.
 

Pandiculate

Well-known member
the safer space stuff makes sense to me, although I've only really experienced it with regards to people being encouraged to report sexual harrassment to bar staff, is that what you two are talking about? It's ridiculous how handsy guys can get.
 

catalog

Well-known member
thanks for this catalog. having hung out with some early-20s americans recently, it is pretty interesting to think about what that experience must be like, of being that kind of age and all of this safer space etc thing at clubs be just the way things are, rather than something that is new. i mean, the first time i saw it (in nyc, at elsewhere i think) i was pretty blown away and it just looked outright like a good thing. but must be strange to be out and constantly wondering if you're making one infraction or another.

i mean I am speculating a lot from a fairly small number of interactions with that kind of demographic. but i am interested in what happens to social interaction of all kinds in the current popular discourse where so many behaviours and actions are moving from being acceptable to unacceptable. i mean 'interested', not necessarily critical.

i think that's the thing - this is the way it is re smartphones and socials in the club. genie's out etc, it's not going back. and no-one can imagine that it would be otherwise.
 

catalog

Well-known member
the safer space stuff makes sense to me, although I've only really experienced it with regards to people being encouraged to report sexual harrassment to bar staff, is that what you two are talking about? It's ridiculous how handsy guys can get.
yeah that's all well and good, you don't want that shit. but im talking about how much social media plays a part in the before-during-after and how it seems to intensify feelings of anxiety. also just a lot of unnecessary carping which like i say, i was part of as well, but mainly as a spectator watching a car crash.
 

WashYourHands

Well-known member
Build/rent a rig, find a farmer a few miles away from anything significant, make them an offer, set up the rig in their barn

24hours later after bucket whip-round, dismantle rig, pick up litter, dispense £ to farmer, go home

That’s all the actual safe space you need. Why get in with a promoter in a *shit venue? Rural retreats = treats

*Ah, Covid, plague rave pigged
 
Top