bandwagon house
Cj, probably for another thread but there have been massive student protests this year. Spilling over into wider society now

<object width="640" height="390"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></embed></object>

Would be very interested to hear from Bruno on this also.


Well-known member
Also I thought you had to be both American and a raving Christian loony to be a neocon

No, definitely not. Historically, most of neocon's prime movers have been Jewish (Perle, Wolfowitz) and they've simply made common cause with the Christian right in the ME.

edit: really don't hae time to go into it now and it's not that appropriate here but I guess the defining aspects are belief in Manichean international politics and aggressive promotion of democracy abroad - at least, that's the theory ;)

Kissingerian is an insult to neocons - the master of real politik, stability, doing deals with the devil etc
Last edited:


Beast of Burden
They despised Kissinger (on the whole) because his version of realpolitik was amoral -- a critique that scanned with the Left, though they would suggest it was immoral.


Beast of Burden
I can describe all the various shades of the neoconservative persuasion, but I don't think it would interest very many people here. But it is true what crackerjack says, neoconservatism (for what it is) and the Tea Party (for what they are) do not cross over or stem from the same social or ideological roots -- and to the extent that they do is the extent that neoconservatism doesn't really exist as a distinct strain from American conservatism per se. In origin, it was always an intellectual and sociological disagreement: City College of New York Jews vs. Ivy League WASPs.

Also, I am intrigued to know why bruno thinks Michael Ledeen is a crypto-fascist, I hope he will explain.


I never really enter into any of the proper intellectual discussions on here - mainly because i'm a thick cunt compared to pretty much everyone else, with little or no understanding of international politics or economics or critical theory or arthouse cinema or whatever - but I do love this board and there's always find something thought-provoking and/or witty and/or fun to read, so it'd be a real shame if it did die. I have no idea how i've got to 1,300 posts or however many it is, because all I say is bollocks really. Which is probably why the forum is dying - too many reasonable cunts like me with nothing to say. This 'Thought' forum was always my favourite one and it's the one that's got way too quiet if you ask me.


est malade
Also, I am intrigued to know why bruno thinks Michael Ledeen is a crypto-fascist, I hope he will explain.

well, he has a kind of revolutionary zeal, a belief in aggressive force/destruction/war to achieve political change/renewal (for democracy/freedom in america's image and for america's benefit), a yearning for uncontested truth and castigation of evil that feels very fascist to me, very manichean. he may not have a portrait of mussolini over his bed, and i'm sure he's a kind soul in person and you know his political philosophy better, but what little i've read of him reeks of love of authority and love of violence (between good and evil, etc.).

Cj, probably for another thread but there have been massive student protests this year. Spilling over into wider society now

the guardian article sums up the student view very well. the opposite view (piñera government) sees opposition support of the student movement as a cynical attempt to bring down the first centre-right government in fifty years, and rightly points out that under concertación (centre-left) governments the for-profit university system went uncontested. there are also elements of the concertación who see support for this movement as undermining the values of compromise/gradual change/financial stability that led to a reduction of poverty and development of chile after pinochet, and there is some truth in that.

thread derailed, sorry.


Beast of Burden
Ah, I see, fair enough. I thought you were going to bring up Lucio Gelli, D'Annunzio or Renzo de Felice, in which case I'd have had to WHIP you.

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Hey, have I missed something, what has happened to Droid?




is not like other people
did dissensus ever truly live?

what you call life, i call a shambling imitation.
dissensus is as inert and pliable as it has ever been


Well-known member
Can't speak for anyone else, but I don't have much energy or enthusiasm atm. Wouldn't be at all surprised if it's connected to my starting to read a lot of news again.