Shuffling / House Music / Cutting Shapes

[trilliam]

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[breakerproductions]

Im surprised, I would really love to know what the ugly parts were, because it sounds like something was not quite right?

 

[trilliam]

like i said i cud never say i didnt have a good time, i had a great time. spoke and danced with some safe people and the music was amazing, i can't speak for the "headliners" but the uk guys had me screaming at times, literally falling out like this is too much, the excitement level was unreal and majestys closing set with the massive audiowhore tag booming out was epic, being on that main dancefloor i felt like my friends have no idea what theyre missing.

which is why its bittersweet cause i can see this all unravelling soon, hopefully im just being pessimistic. anyway nah there was no stabbings/shootings or anything like that just sporadic violence and a youth club feel that took away from the vibe imo. not to mention how oversold the event was, come like a sweatshop at times. since siesta/audiowhore became the place to be it jumped the shark. i'd hate to hazard the percentage of people there that actually care about house.

 

[breakerproductions]

I think I understand what your saying fully.
My friends were down Elephant yesterday, they drove past the Coronet, but opted to go Ministry instead to check out Low Steppa.

 

[Blackdown]

I think what Pinch is saying is...

Having spent the weekend with him, i think it's very unlikely Pinch is talking about London/DeepTech/Audio Rehab, in which case you lot are getting your knickers in a twist about nothing.

I would assume he's talking about all the house that half of dubstep went off into post-Bro, which of course I'm sure of you lot would be the first to point out is quite a distinct branch from London/DeepTech/Audio Rehab.

'experimental' instrumental grime/130 stuff ... It clears dancefloors.

I dunno mate, while there's loads and loads of eski-clones been made in the last three years (by people with honest intentions to try and solve the "what next?" problem, most of which we avoid), some of this stuff now is nuts, like literally nutty.

Dusk and I played the following sequence of records to about 500 people on Friday at Outlook:

Pinch & Mumdance Turbo Mitzi VIP
Damu "WhirlyBird"
Blackdown "Wot do you mean"
Damu "Ard korp"
Bloom "Keyframe (Gage fukup)"

... and they totally bang, it was carnage. And when I say "nutty" i mean i spent half the moment reeling from the impact and the other half laughing going, "what the f...?". It was literally fun and also funny, such hardcore-eque oddness.

Anyway, I'm sure these styles of tunes have no place or interest in this thread but i just wanted to contest the "it clears dancefloors" point.

PS "Turbo Mitzi" reminds me of those euro house tracks like "Klambu" that Gee & co started playing post ukfunky,

 

[datwun]

You know, I find I tend to go through musical phrases where I only really want to listen to one sound, but it's silly not to know a little more of the 130 stuff than I do... your enthusiasm is infectious Martin any recent mixes (of yours or whoevers) of that stuff that you'd recommend? (maybe PM me so we don't clog up this thread lol)

trilliam: It's interesting, I know people are saying there are events with a more brittle feel to them or something, but then they exist in a scene alongside House ENT and Audio Rehab, who make a very concerted effort to keep their events 'positive'. Like, with garage/grime/bassline/jungle which were these self contained genres, you could see how these genres became known for trouble they could be locked off by the police. But how can the police lock off 'house music' lol. Can't quite envision how say, trouble in Siesta or Audio Whore could bubble over into Ministry of Sound, but then I never saw any of the bad old days with my own eyes, so maybe I'm being naive?

 

[datwun]

I think it's more possible than we'd like to imagine. They would start by locking off certain brands

This is what I mean though! If certain brands, say Audio Whore and Siesta are causing trouble and others, say Audio Rehab and House ENT aren't I can't see the police locking off the later based on their keen musical perception of the sonic familiarity of those events lol. That's why, despite /wanting/ the scene to create it's own unique identity, I can see the wisdom of staying hidden within the broader house framework.

And yeah, the scene will either die or will just merge with another house scene altogether. I mean, it does beg the question - I mean, completely unanswerable and not even worth asking while this scene is in absolutely full swing and growth mode - but after going right back to the beginning with house, and a form of house that basically takes in all the sounds and sonic innovations of all the 'nuum scenes up to this point - where next?

 

[Corpsey]

Anyway, I'm sure these styles of tunes have no place or interest in this thread but i just wanted to contest the "it clears dancefloors" point.

I think it's firmly established now that I'm basically talking out of my arse. I was going off some people telling me that Mumdance e.g. had cleared the dancefloor at a couple of clubs - Thekla and Fabric, I think? Anyway, not intending to shit on Mumdance or the whole instrumental grime thing. After all, I was massively into dubstep which used to infamously fail to pack dancefloors (and also suffered from this whole myth of nobody dancing to it which was complete bollocks). Probably at smaller specialist events like Boxed/Keysound everyone goes mad to it. Personally from what I've heard I can take it or leave it. I don't really like grime without MCs. I don't even like listening to Wiley instrumentals e.g. without an MC. Seems like half the equation to me but I know there's many who don't see it that way.

I dunno if I was ever like this before I got on forums and esp. got on Dissensus. Obviously I always hated certain styles of music (often just before I got into them) but I didn't have this whole narrative of THE CLASH OF THE SUB-GENRES going on in my head so I wouldn't have been too concerned about which genre was holding the torch for the true spirit of rave or whatever.

Basically I was so into Frequency when I went that I sought to explain why it was that all these other things that I have witnessed and danced to in the last few years have not done that much for me, fundamentally. Like when I went to a Swamp 81 event quite recently in London. It was shit. Couldn't relate to people dancing to it and acting like it was amazing. Assumed I was just too old for this shit. It's a relief to find that I'm not, but yeah... No need to shit on other people's tastes.

Re: the ''nutty'' quality of this grime stuff, I think that's actually one of the things that puts me off it. It's like this collision of sound effects and percussion sounds, these big bangs and crashes and explosions. I think Deep Tech is comparatively simple - just basslines, claps, a little sample here and there etc. It feels very no nonsense.

 

[David_M]

Having spent the weekend with him, i think it's very unlikely Pinch is talking about London/DeepTech/Audio Rehab, in which case you lot are getting your knickers in a twist about nothing.

I would assume he's talking about all the house that half of dubstep went off into post-Bro, which of course I'm sure of you lot would be the first to point out is quite a distinct branch from London/DeepTech/Audio Rehab.



I dunno mate, while there's loads and loads of eski-clones been made in the last three years (by people with honest intentions to try and solve the "what next?" problem, most of which we avoid), some of this stuff now is nuts, like literally nutty.

Not gonna talk for everyone else, but at least what I was talking about was that attitude of "it's just more house"/"it's been in Europe for years"/"It's like a generation missed house music", regardless of the comments referring to the stuff this thread is about or otherwise. That smug thinking of because you know Theo Parrish and Chicago house you know better than the young ones, when in reality that only makes you more likely to miss what's happening in front of you. And I think that obsession with what's next that you touch on, is part of that thinking as well.

 

[alex]

^spot on

 

[alex]

btw frequency! at warehouse on the 19th?? might have to back it...not been to warehouse since the legends days, it's had a revamp im sure?

 

[Blackdown]

Not gonna talk for everyone else, but at least what I was talking about was that attitude of "it's just more house"/"it's been in Europe for years"/"It's like a generation missed house music", regardless of the comments referring to the stuff this thread is about or otherwise. That smug thinking of because you know Theo Parrish and Chicago house you know better than the young ones, when in reality that only makes you more likely to miss what's happening in front of you. And I think that obsession with what's next that you touch on, is part of that thinking as well.

well this is crux of the entire division on deeptech isn't it? you can't argue its not big, it is big; you can't argue it isn't running things in London, it has been for ages; you can't argue people aren't having a good time, they are; you can't argue there's a unique culture forming with their own patterns and values, there is.

but it is up for debate if the music is sufficiently distinct from music in close sonic proximity (from now and the past) to its current form and whether you should care about such distinctness or not ie is the whole cultural package more important or dominant than just the music itself or is the vibe in these clubs enough to make sonic proximity issues irrelevant.

but anyway, we've all been over this 8 million times who even gives a fuck lol.

 

[firefly]

i think the music itself is different...

i sure hope you've discussed this in your interview with mark radford, blackdown

 

[trilliam]

i think the music itself is different...

i sure hope you've discussed this in your interview with mark radford, blackdown

trust me

funny how the music thats not sufficiently distinct from music in close sonic proximity has people saying it's the next new thing where as the music that's trying to solve the "what next problem" has people thinking rehash

i think it would be very easy to lock this scene off btw, but the seed has already been planted, i dont think people realise that deep tech weren't the beginning of black london eek responding to house, just the end result, if you wanna say boom audio rehabs first release, summer 2012 is the start of deep tech, then the whole house thing was going on for at least three years before that in urban circles

so in a way all this stuff about ballons, shuffling and the "cool culture" is peripheral, it's for the bandwagoners and those that wanna have a good time not the "purists" if u get what im saying, with or without that shit the scene has it's own unique identity and i think people r gonna be making house based shit for a minute no matter when this particular wave ends, which despite my concerns aint gonna be anytime soon (although i do think it would be very easy to lock off the scene to an extent)

jungle and garage had their raves that were known for being one thing or another but some of the statements about parties being more whatever than another are kinda dangerous whether true or false

anyway this scene can't go on forever, the thing with organic shit is it tends to last longer simple

Having spent the weekend with him, i think it's very unlikely Pinch is talking about London/DeepTech/Audio Rehab, in which case you lot are getting your knickers in a twist about nothing.

no shit, i think pinch knows just about as much as you'd know about this music if it werent for this thread

with regards to mumdance/pinch ive been meaning to get around to listening to their shit since that b2b mix came out, out of curiosity more than anything, but l expect it to be abrasive for the sake of it, rather than i dunno, really having a dark element

i find that with a LOT of the music coming out from the post dubstep, heads crowd who really try n market their music as raw and this and that, it's heavy handed and for want of a better word, try hard, which is hilarious in hindsight when a producer guilty of fitting that description calls a tune that is actually "rude", "moist" then 12 months later wants to get gassed about frequency

tbh this is my problem with the pushing things forwards, innovative, yadda yaddda approach

you have this revered guy in pinch saying basically the post dubstep guys did house wrong, you have blackdown saying guys have been making eski clones for three years but it's ok because it's well intentioned

but then you have guys talking about "cool kids" and championing of black london whatever whatever

as much as people wanna go on, did go on, or believe in the "hardcore continuum" i doubt there's a lot that actually get it

 

[trilliam]

to me ye this is more of a whats going to happen thing

the whole fascination with the dance is just the 'story', sensationalism or whatever

it may not seem like anything is actually happening on the surface but i think to a lot of the ppl involved there's an end game

producers n djs are making it work, cant rele put trademarks on suttin as established [as house] but its clear what sounds are favoured

snm

 

[trilliam]

fuck all this shit anyway

FREQUENCY - SEPTEMBER 13TH
RINSE FUNKY NIGHT - SEPTEMBER 18TH
HOUSE PASSION - OCTOBER 4TH
CANVAS LDN - OCTOBER 17TH
YELLOW - OCTOBER 3RD
HOUSE OF SILK - NOVEMBER 1ST
HOUSE CENTRAL - NOVEMBER 15TH
AUDIO REHAB - NOVEMBER 22ND
DAZED - OCTOBER 25TH/DECEMBER 6TH

doubt ima hit all of these but some there's simply no choice but to roll

next saturday, will probably hit this if i dont hit frequency, aint since radford out since home at 65 earlier this year, and warehouse ldn logistically is just long for me, having said that though

i wouldnt miss this for the world

/

speaking of 65 it's re opening this sunday, great to see, will b there

 

[breakerproductions]

You know what, I have been watching Ministry Live from the club video series, Audio rehab on the 16th August, but there seems to be no vibes in there. seems very stale, maybe too many tourists..........

 

[wise]

yeah I felt like this when I went to Audio Rehab, it's a weird club for sure

 

[Blackdown]

lol blackdown i read ur blog, u got some cheek, apart from this thread being purely ur only source material, ur claims that u called this happening three years ago (the same claims that were shot down in this thread) were laughable, as was ur usual anti house slant in that disclosure post. the comments tell u what i and others have been telling this board for a hot minute.

consider this a plug.

triliam, i met radford at rinse HQ the other week - because i am interested in getting a really detailed and properly informed position on things. he was positive, friendly knowledgeable and open to debate from different viewpoints.

if he can be so sound about deeptech, why do you have to be such a bitter and negative prick?

you don't have a monopoly on opinions about deeptech. this board is called Dissensus, if you're only looking for people who agree with you you're in the wrong place. if you can't handle differing view points you're in the wrong place.

do you know what makes me laugh the most about you trilliam?

you're so angry at anyone who isn't unconditionally positive about deeptech, so bitter about your conspiracy theory of all the middle class journalists/prs/labels who simply "must" be deliberately blocking deep tech - while you simultaneously post on a forum where your audience is 99% middle class journalists/prs/labels.

What makes me laugh more at you is that for the scene to get where you want it to go ie not getting ignored by said magazines/wider recognition of its talents/international bookings etc, it will have to go through those very same gatekeepers - that's the harsh reality of the industry. I just hope for deeptech's sake it's not someone as bitter, angry and shortsighted as you that does the negotiating, when that time comes.

consider this a reality check.

 

[breakerproductions]

I went to the first Audio Rehab at Ministry, and it was pretty much the same thing, not what I expected at all, in terms of people really enjoying themselves (brocking out).

I'm in my 30's now but used to rave at Ministry all the time(over 50 times), in my Garage days, and I tell you something, there was much more vibes and dancing back then at Ministry.

So I watched the Rs4 and Radford set, over 2 and half hours of footage, and still looked like, no vibes. Radfords up there doing the Dj hands in the air clap thing, but I'm thinking there is no way this guy can tell, if his tunes are doing damage on the floor, because the crowd looks stale, and aint really giving him anything back, apart from a vocal "hey and a woo" from the crowd.

I think I need to go to a different club, to experience 'Deep Tech', becasuse Ministry aint the one. Great sound, decent set-up, enough rooms, lacking vibes = Ministry.........................