Comin in with the mix and blend

[Sectionfive]

Easy as it would be to blow a few hundred quid if you had it. A flick though boomkat can be fairly grim. The last decade has thrown up a lot of parallels in that where previously the MC came to dominate, it's now the producer. You can count on two hands the DJs who blew up on DJing alone and I think that goes some way towards accounting for the lack of momentum or excitement most of us regularly perceive to be absent.

Producers are baring the brunt of both hype and criticism because other parts of jigsaw have fallen away. Not extinct, obviously, but where people look or what leads or goes in and out between anthems. We would have once had DJs & Club(nights) shaping sounds along side the Studio but things appear to have narrowed and the balance is gone.

We've done a fair bit of moaning about about pastiche but when we talk about that lack of focus is it because we are looking in the wrong place? This is not longing back to a time before broadband. There is a still a Mancuso, Bambaataa, Slimzee, Hardy element that should be unshakable no? House, Headz, Garage, FWD, Niche. It's true that the tradition of you have to go there to hear that sound has been massively eroded but it's still absolutely foundational to the whole thing.

Tunes are built off the back of the Saturday night you're recovering from not one from two decades ago you stitch together on youtube.

Wiley snare, big shot drums, youngstar bass, moody pad = random producer jumping on this grime

Nails it. That period of beige 2step we're only beginning to shake. You had everyone biting Burial's drums as a thing itself rather then going to the source Burial was drawing from. Those fucking pitched vocals. It's producers looking at other producers. Always been the case but the counterweight of DJs has been lost. As far as there is ever a plan, do people still boot logic with that DJ or that club in mind? Or is so much of it 'no one could name what decade they’re from' as Blackdown ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶d̶r̶i̶v̶e̶n̶ pointed to last week.

Dubs were built for Larry, Hatcha, Fabio & Grooverider. Does it still happen or has the dynamic where you can be the DJ and only route to it is production washed all of it away? Does anyone even have a proper residency any more?

Haven't followed the Jackin/Shuffling threads closely but these (despite definitely being of their time) feel like they are closer to our own stamp on house rather then DJ driven leaps. Open to correction.

Listening to Pev & Kowton on Boiler room yesterday. Bristol seems better able to gel a sound then London in 2013. It's a lot closer to Detroit with a jungle current. There is rave(ecstasy) DNA still there that has been bred out of the London nuum.

Ben's Fabric mix. Clear lineage from the Hessle/Ruffage sound where now you're not sure if it's bringing fwd to house or vice versa but it's the best sensibilities of both. It can get broken and swung from pounding in a way that would have been more noticeable three years ago. Feels like proper progression rather then all the house remakes.

Down the BPMs Alex Nut, Om Unit, Eclair LuckyMe and all that dialog with LA etc. Easily the biggest scope for switch ups and variety. They have so much to draw for because even with an LP culture and monsters like Flylo it's still so DJ led. Rooted in the bits hiphop that didn't get cannibalised by MCs. Some of the most fertile music now.

Slackk's mixes are doing what Butterz did before. Lots of grime being eaten by trap but Slackk & Oil Gang mixes feel like United Vibes on a Sunday where you don't wanna see a tracklist or even play the tunes in isolation. Just enjoy the soup.

Champion & Formula feel like the last road music in London.

The bit of Nine's Rinse CD online ticks a lot of boxes in 20 minutes. To it's detriment if you're looking for a coherent kode9 sound but that's him. Always broader then the label output and it's better then trying some tired shit about creating a unique listing experience and all the other bollox that goes with commercial releases. Haven't seen him out for two years but Oneman's dark thing he talked about in the interview with Martin never really came through on radio. Just a mixing beast.

Footcrab, Work Them, IRL (usually in that order...Hyph Mngo to close things out) can push things along but Oneman/BokBok/BenUFO/Brackles were the catalyst around then. Joker & Guido nailed all the signifies from the off so nothing could really build. Crazy Cousinz endured but the magic was on Petchy's show you know.

We're fucked if club music falls into the rock thing where people are only known for their own music.

 

[paolo]

Maybe there just isn't as much good new music as there used to be. Retromania and all that

 

[owengriffiths]

I'll admit that I'm not up to date with what's going on in dance music nowadays so I rarely get to hear these DJ's who only play their own stuff. But this recent story about a producer I'm not familiar with (spor) grabbed my attention. http://whiteraverrafting.com/feed-me-says-he-will-quit-djing/2013/05/23/

To sum it up he says that he got into DJing off the back of producing, and the implication is that he only played his own tunes or so-called live edits of his own tunes. To be fair I'm not familiar with him so don't know whether I rate his tracks or not. But for a DJ to purely play their own tunes- I seriously have to question whether people like that even like music. Why on earth would you ever limit yourself to your own productions when statistically there's usually going to be 20-1000 producers who are better than you. Even someone of the same calibre as the two Todds- why not slip in other people's tunes in the mix?

People might counter and say, "oh but no one else is producing the kind of stuff I like nowadays", but that's a dead end argument. Just go retro and play similar type tracks from the past. This whole 'personal production showcase' style of mixing belongs in a twenty minute guest appearance on a radio show or a rock concert. It's anathema to what dance music is all about, and the fact that so many producers are naive to this is shocking.

 

[owengriffiths]

As for the whole retromania thing that was talked about in the If New York can die thread- and continuing what Sectionfive sort of said- London is not always a good example for pushing things forward. People like Ratpack or whoever are still making a career off old skool nights, the amount of airtime on the pirates devoted to H&G, EZ still has a high profile radio show ten years after his scene practically died (not withstanding recent revivals)... And even at the peak of two-step in the charts and in the underground a Garage set would usually consist of 20% 4 to the floor classics from a handful of ears ago. And woe betide the DJ that plays an unheard dubplate in the club- new tracks have to be broken on the radio first before people are willing to dance to it, etc.

Obviously Garage is the worst offender for this but then arguably Garage is the most London-centric genre? Whereas in the rest of the world you expect a House & Techno (or whatever genre) club set to consist mainly of tunes you've never heard before, or there's a lack of diversity in the productions where it's hard to distinguish one track from the other anyway. Which is another terrible creative cul-de-sac. Upfront but uninspired music.

 

[Elijah]

But for a DJ to purely play their own tunes- I seriously have to question whether people like that even like music. Why on earth would you ever limit yourself to your own productions when statistically there's usually going to be 20-1000 producers who are better than you. Even someone of the same calibre as the two Todds- why not slip in other people's tunes in the mix?

Its a USP. U can only hear that kinda set from them. I enjoy it from producers that have a good catalogue.

Our whole nights at Cable were pretty much like that, it wasn't about not liking other music, was about focus and challenge to make better music..

 

[Elijah]

Why is it so important that people blow up solely from DJing? How many people from the past can you name that did that that didn't run nights, have radio shows, run labels or work in a shop. Or are you just saying non producing DJs.

 

[continuum]

Haven't followed the Jackin/Shuffling threads closely but these (despite definitely being of their time) feel like they are closer to our own stamp on house rather then DJ driven leaps. Open to correction.

The thing that intrigues me is how House music has, until relatively recently, been a separate entity to the Hardcore Continuum scenes.

 

[Sectionfive]

Why is it so important that people blow up solely from DJing? How many people from the past can you name that did that that didn't run nights, have radio shows, run labels or work in a shop. Or are you just saying non producing DJs.

Only that balance has tipped in a way that getting a record out seems to be the main way up the ladder now. It's a shift from thirty odd years of name DJs eventually going into the Studio to primarily named producers going into the club. There was always a better balance of both.

That Butterz sound was built into something distinct from hours and hours of radio. The different approach on that show shaped a grime apart from say Logan or Sypro in the same Hatcha or Marcus Nasty moulded things before. A DJ built sound you know.

 

[Sectionfive]

The thing that intrigues me is how House music has, until relatively recently, been a separate entity to the Hardcore Continuum scenes.

Was odd how the Jungle guys who went on to garage had the same scorn for grime they had gotten from house a few years earlier.

 

[Elijah]

Thanks for the complement.

What DJs are you talking about specifically Im not really thinking way outside of the London Pirate Radio bubble which I was born into.

 

[owengriffiths]

Its a USP. U can only hear that kinda set from them. I enjoy it from producers that have a good catalogue.

Our whole nights at Cable were pretty much like that, it wasn't about not liking other music, was about focus and challenge to make better music..

I assume for Cable you and the people you booked played mostly tunes on the Butterz label or tunes that would fit into that aesthetic? That probably leads to more varied sets than those played by the more laptop focused producers, and I daresay your DJ's weren't playing similar/ the same sets day in day out (and weren't getting booked much anyway) like the increasingly more common commercial producer/ reluctant DJ.

To be honest though I'd prefer for a DJ's unique selling point to be that they have great taste in music. Because regardless of them paying £7 for a twelve, £1 an MP3 or a promo for free- that's always been a problem in dance music. Play more great tracks and less okay b-sides.

 

[Sectionfive]

What DJs are you talking about specifically

Everyone from Larry Levan & Tony Humphries
Hardy & Knuckles
Herc, Flash & Bambaataa
Alfredo
Northern Soul
Park & Pickering
...then house goes Hardcore
Fabio & Grooverider
Sasha & Digweed
Robert Hood
Soul II Soul
Grant Nelson pitching up US dubs
Slimzee & PAUG drawing for the dark basslines
Hatcha striped down garage
Supa D & Marcus
Bok Bok, Oneman etc bringing 140 down into the 130s

Blackdown last week listed years

’66, ’77, ’88, ’93, ’99, ’03, ’06

and you could do the same with Clubs or nights through the years

Everyone passes through say Berghain but they've managed to cultivate their own thing. Feels like that side is getting thinner on the ground.

 

[Elijah]

I assume for Cable you and the people you booked played mostly tunes on the Butterz label or tunes that would fit into that aesthetic? That probably leads to more varied sets than those played by the more laptop focused producers, and I daresay your DJ's weren't playing similar/ the same sets day in day out (and weren't getting booked much anyway) like the increasingly more common commercial producer/ reluctant DJ.

To be honest though I'd prefer for a DJ's unique selling point to be that they have great taste in music. Because regardless of them paying £7 for a twelve, £1 an MP3 or a promo for free- that's always been a problem in dance music. Play more great tracks and less okay b-sides.

Dont understand why there needs to be a singular way of doing things. Appropriate occasion init. Nobody cares for my wide music tastes. That's not what got me to this point and a lot of producers would share the same thoughts.

There's space for everything, and everyones ideas.

The sets are online check em out, there is enough variety in there

 

[Elijah]

And the answer to your question does anyone have a proper residency anymore? That's an interesting point. How many regular nights are there cracking in London?

No weeklys, hardly any monthlys. Mainly just quartelys sold of the back of big names.

I might be wrong but thats the way I see things. Even FWD isnt weekly anymore. Landscapes totally changed.

 

[Benny Bunter]

Can we all just agree that DJ Q is the best already?
http://www.ministryofsound.com/radio/radio-djs/370/dj-q/

He's got the impeccable taste in music that Owen was talking about, managing to incorporate practically every style I love in his radio shows - UKG (new and old), Jackin, House & Bass, Butterz style technicolour Grime, Bassline, vocals and thuggish Bass instrumentals, he's playing the new Black Butter pop house and Disco stuff too. AND he's a wicked producer AND shit-hot mixing skills. I would say he is the gold standard for UK stuff and has been for a while. Listening to his shows always manages to paint an exciting and varied picture of the wider UK scene, makes me feel positive about it again.

I agree that sets of all your own productions work best on 20 min radio showcases (theres been some fantastic ones from people like Funkystepz over the years on 1xtra shows - DJ Q again!).

 

[Roshman]

The last part of this:

http://www.xlr8r.com/features/2011/05/full-house-jackmaster-oneman-and

really touches on what you're saying.

I've always thought that you're probably in a better position to play a better set if you're not a producer, because you don't have the pressures to play tracks that may have a detriment to the overall impact of the set. If you're purely a DJ you might be more inclined to have an audience perspective, as opposed to a producer one when it comes to vetting tracks for the dance.

I'm not suggesting that if you produce and DJ, you'll never be as good as a "proper DJ" I'd probably water that statement down to producers who are more DJ focused. Aka Youngsta as the perfect example.

There's an art to mixing that goes deeper than just sticking 2 tracks together, but if you're a producer and you're looking at that booking fee then you couldn't really give a shit about the subtle nuances, neither could the audience most of time, lets be honest.

If you're not particularly into DJing, I think as a producer you might be better off doing a live thing, chances are you're booked off the back of your releases and youtube hits, as opposed to your mixes. So strictly playing your own stuff is hardly going to be unwelcome.

The best sets I've heard have come from strictly DJs or those few producers that clearly understand what they're doing behind the decks. The worst sets have come from producers, but that's probably just a statistically more likely thing to happen in this day and age.

 

[Gess]

Can we all just agree that DJ Q is the best already?

No. He's a great DJ but his taste def isn't up everyone's street.

 

[rubberdingyrapids]

Champion & Formula feel like the last road music in London.

ive been thinking this. though theres still funkystepz, ill blu and lil silva (kinda).

 

[Roshman]

Some might disagree.

 

[Sectionfive]

though theres still funkystepz, ill blu and lil silva

agree


The point I was getting at is so much more names are being made of the back of records then anything else now. It's almost novel when someone get noticed off the back of sets. Score5 is one off the top of my head but you could have named 10 a few years ago. Will always be the eskimos & We are IE but you need the other parts to balance everything out and it could by why so much of it feels stale at times. You're also not getting tunes in context as much or rather have access that would more then likely only be in mixes & clubs once.

You had to go hear them dubplates at FWD and went home with the sound of the whole night to take from.