Robert Aickman

you

Well-known member
I think that these are differences but that doesn't necessary mean that they are in total opposition.
Well, of course not. I said these were differences. No one has claimed Aickman and James are in 'total opposition'.
 

you

Well-known member
That's what I took it to mean when she said that there were two camps, or something like that at least.

Yes, I think Allan's statement of 'Aickmanites vs Jamesians' is more oppositional in tone.

But I was trying to articulate some differences between Aickman's stories and James' that might factor into, provide some possible reasons, for this brief line of Allan's

An Aickmanite is not Robert Aickman.
A Jamesian is not M. R. James.

@IdleRich interesting that you did not enjoy Lane. Have you read any more Aickman?
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Again, let me say, that was not really a criticism of Lane - I'm not sure I would have enjoyed anything in that circumstance. I finished the book later and enjoyed.
 
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you

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"Yesterday I was driving into town and car just conked out on the motorway. Luckily the insurance covers a tow and a taxi for me - but I was waiting for very nearly two hours for the tow truck to come and I read almost the entirety of Scar City by Joel Lane. I can't say that I enjoyed it much, maybe sitting in the blazing heat waiting for a tow truck with loads of lorries and stuff flying by about half a metre away is not the best situation to read such depressing stories." @IdleRich

This is a very interesting point though. It's an interesting thought - the dissonance of time and place, the bleed. Context, margins. No doubt we have all enjoyed or not enjoyed texts not because of some intellectual or emotional independent view but because we are porous cells in a passage through the world. Is this why innocuous non-spaces such as airports and trains, these terminal inters, are so conducive to thoughtful and impressive reading?

There are number of recent novels that are narratives about reading, I'm not really into these literary efforts though.

Some of the heavier notes in Lane's work (loneliness, isolation, poverty, sex) are in very different contexts today (for better or worse). Lane does briefly mention the internet in a few stories but post social media this dimension is entirely different. I've said it before but I often feel the loneliness of connection, the anxiety of the scroll, is one of the more challenging and common experiences for current writers to evoke, explore and address.
 

catalog

Well-known member
He's got you bang to rights there rich, both @you and me could swore you didn't like it.

What I like about him (Lane) from the little I've read (just 'from blue to black' and a couple of short stories) is the attention to detail. So not exactly realism (but this is also why that particular novel worked pretty well, cos the realism means the shock when it comes is quite powerful) but certainly privelg8ng mood over story structure.

And this is also what I really like about aickman, he puts you in the room very well. I've read a couple more short stories now ("Your tiny hand is frozen" and "Ringing the changes"). Both very good, although the second was a bit more "tight". Just very good ways of describing things and people, so you get a good sense eg from 1st one

"Things mechanical are like the ladies,' continued Toby. 'You need to understand their ways. If you understand them, they'll do what
you want from the start. If you don't, they've got you. And then God help you.'

As a way of describing a guy annoying the main character.

In the 2nd one

At the door from which Mrs Pascoe had emerged appeared a man from the inner room. Though still youngish, he was puce and puffy, and in his braces, with no collar. Streaks of sandy hair laced his vast red scalp.

Liquor oozed all over him, as if from a perished gourd. Gerald took it that this was Don. The man was too drunk toa rticulate. He stood in the doorway clinging with each red hand to the ledge, and savagely struggling to flay his wife with imprecations.

And

Won't you join us?' said Gerald boldly. There was that in the Commandant's face which boded no hurt. 'Can I get you a drink?'

The Commandant did not turn his head, and seemed unable to speak. Then in a low voice he said, 'For a moment only.'

Just this ability to use pauses well, allowing you to get a good sense of people.

It's this picture of pre 60s England, the upper crust on their downers, its all a bit grim and shit, bad postwar vibes.

I wonder if Lane will become a lot more popular once we get more distance from him and we have a new era of politics/society. Its too close, to me he sounds positively quaint and nice at times. But yes, somewhat terminally depressed people...
 
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catalog

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Some of the heavier notes in Lane's work (loneliness, isolation, poverty, sex) are in very different contexts today (for better or worse). Lane does briefly mention the internet in a few stories but post social media this dimension is entirely different. I've said it before but I often feel the loneliness of connection, the anxiety of the scroll, is one of the more challenging and common experiences for current writers to evoke, explore and address.

@suspended can you help us out here with some reccs please?
 
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you

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@catalog I haven't got @IdleRich 'bang to rights'.

I don't think anyone said Idlerich criticised Lane's work.

And Idle was right to emphasise that not enjoying a text is not the same as criticising a text. It's this difference that is interesting, thought provoking.

Disliking a book is not criticising a book.
 

catalog

Well-known member
In all seriousness, I'm gonna get scar city once I've gone through the graves and a few more sagas, so we'll revisit then. But rich, you might also really like "from blue to black", if only for the music lifestyle aspect. I would post it you if the postage wasn't so extortionate.

You'd think we could, by now, set up some sort of exchange thing for paper books, through amazon fulfilment or something, so you don't pay postage.

Specially cos libraries can be tricky for these little known ones, they've often got rid.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Everything people said is fair I think. I was in a bad mood when I read the book and it made me feel worse, and I said so - it was completely reasonable to draw the inference that I was criticising the book. Later I tried to clarify that a little. As I said, I do I fact have some criticisms but I'll come to that in a sec.

But basically there was something about the very direct contrast between my situation and the book. To identify just one direct contrast; I felt the book was very cold - literally so, lots of talk of winter, people shivering, their jackets inadequate etc it really felt like the book was too cold and reality was too hot. A strange situation. But really not a criticism.

What I did find a bit annoying at times was the half-finished nature of his tales. I realise this is intrinsic to his writing and part of what a lot of people like but it did frustrate me at times. I will say though that although most of the stories themselves could almost be described as fragments, together they created something like a whole world. Even though the stories are not related it's not much of a stretch to think most are set in the same reality. The events of a given story could very easily be taking place simultaneously to another, perhaps just round the corner, the protagonists walking the same streets. And I found this made the collection more than the sum of its parts. If someone asked me "which was your favourite story?" I would struggle to pick one that I could say was really great or which really summed up what was good about him, I'd suggest instead that it ws necessary to read three or four at least.

So I'm quite kinda conflicted here, just trying to nail my overall impression. I'm getting that what I'm saying might still sound negative, but, and it's quite a big but, I'm interested to read more.
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich
This is a very interesting point though. It's an interesting thought - the dissonance of time and place, the bleed. Context, margins. No doubt we have all enjoyed or not enjoyed texts not because of some intellectual or emotional independent view but because we are porous cells in a passage through the world. Is this why innocuous non-spaces such as airports and trains, these terminal inters, are so conducive to thoughtful and impressive reading?
Yeah. And this was the absolute zenith of in-between spaces. An airport is somewhere we pass through and don't stay, but we are gonna be there for some time. But a motorway you literally just drive through. No-one should stop, unless something has gone wrong. And on the hard shoulder, with another mini-motorway on my right too. It was quite a unique place to actually spend time. I guess anyone who wanted to could experience similar by simply pulling over but noone ever does that. I'm reminded of an article I read where someone booked a trip on a container ship just to write about the experience. A nothing trip that anyone could presumably take but which was interesting to read about cos noone does.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Still deliciously leaving lots of space for unmentioned bad features. You're on great form today with artfully understated compliments that could almost be insults.
 
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