Well-known member

It couldn't survive, thank christ. The rhythmic parameters of the genres were so small that the entire collected body of jungle could be summed up on a 'jungle setting' on a Casio. "Renegade Snares" is all I ever needed, personally.

― dave q, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

It became dated so quickly because it was ideal for use as incidental music between TV shows etc. Also, if the description "dance music you can't dance to" can be applied to Cabaret Voltaire, how much more can it be applied to Jungle! As something which was very much rooted in the dance music scene, it appeared to be promising something it couldn't deliver. Mind you, it was quite fun watching people trying to dance to it...

― MarkH, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

Gareth - to answer your questions: no, I don't listen to it; no, it is not nostalgic for me; no, there is no canon, for by my lights it is a sequence of abominations.

― the pinefox, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

Jungle is cool but it hardly ever feels, for lack of a better word, spontaneous.

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 31 August 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

Jungle - ugly music for people who just can't dance.

― russ t, Tuesday, 27 May 2003 09:07 (11 years ago) Permalink

nebbesh - 'raving'...err....whaaaat?! 'raving'....what the FUCK has 'raving' (how quaint) got to do with JUNGLE?!?!?!?!?!

And for the record - accept it... jungle is music for people who have absolutely no natural rhythm. Ugly music. It's the genre that the genuine clubbers avoid like the plague because of the hideous attitude and violence that it's associated with. Uusally because most 'junglists' are aged 15.

And I never ever went to any clubs where jungle would get people err... 'tearing out'. And I live in Bristol, mate, one of the natural original homes of jungle, so there aint nothing you can preach or teach to me about the genre.

Jungle - you'll be hiding your jungle vinyl with acute embarrassment in a few years. See also Happy Hardcore, another kiddie genre.

Deeply dud, extremely nasty.

― russ t, Tuesday, 27 May 2003 12:28 (11 years ago) Permalink

how on earth are you meant to dance to jungle? it's like idm to me tbh

― lex pretend, Friday, 28 October 2011 09:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

the rhythms are just too messy for me and the drum sounds are not very thrilling. i don't find the rhythms dazzling at all, they just seem entirely and randomly pointless. they don't go anywhere or resolve, i can't use them for anything...

― liberté, égalité, beyoncé (lex pretend), Tuesday, 10 April 2012 13:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

the focus on undanceable rhythms that just code as "wacky" and purposeless to me

― lex pretend, Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:21 AM (12 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i listened to "inner city life" yesterday and really enjoyed it though

― liberté, égalité, beyoncé (lex pretend), Thursday, 12 April 2012 07:46 (3 years ago) Permalink


Well-known member
oh man...this is like asking me if i want aids or cancer.

i guess i choose grime cause it's easier to say.

― That One Guy (That One Guy), Wednesday, 27 June 2001 02:59 (13 years ago) Permalink

I like the grime sound, but the songs aren't about anything and they're completely un-raveable and just really fucking aggressive. Listen to some of the new ragga-jungle coming in from america and canada and you'll get what im saying. Jungle's started again out their and their are some amazing new producers like 16 Armed Jack (the Jimi Hendrix Of jungle!) coming out and they've got that whole reggae soundclash dubplate culture going on. Check 's download section for some new ill jungle.

― Dr. Colossus, Wednesday, 3 August 2005 14:17 (9 years ago) Permalink


Well-known member

The album is shit. boring amatuerish crap...

― Savin All My Love 4 u (Savin 4ll my (heart) 4u), Tuesday, 9 September 2003 22:46 (11 years ago) Permalink

All right, ILM loves Dizzee Rascal, and I completely do not get it.

I have given it many chances out of curiosity and I just cannot see why some people are militant over it. It reads like sub-par American commercial R&B with verbally impaired MC's blathering on about clichéd nothings over the top.

What am I missing here? Is this desperate anglophilia? Is this the need to like England so much that you will accept sub-par musical output? Is it a drug thing, am I not taking the right drugs to get into his stuff? So what is the story, what am I not seeing?

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Sunday, 22 June 2003 16:11 (11 years ago) Permalink

To me, I have seen enough electronic music styles come and go over the last eight years to take everything with a grain of salt. What I am hearing is wack laptop synthesis with so-so song writing and mc's who cannot flow. It does not sound zesty or fucked up, it just sounds like a sterile laptop production with some dude from down the street laying down a weak rap over the top.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Sunday, 22 June 2003 16:27 (11 years ago) Permalink

Upon listening to the song I Luv U, and not knowing anything at all about Dizzy Rascal, I'd like to comment that the music is amazingly great, and the rappers voice is incredibly annoying/retarded sounding.

― David Allen, Tuesday, 24 June 2003 22:13 (11 years ago) Permalink

actually, he sounds like an English Fred Durst.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 23:50 (11 years ago) Permalink

Oh my god he does kinda sound like Fred Durst!!

― Adam A. (Keiko), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 23:55 (11 years ago) Permalink

took almost 10 years, but i can recognize this now for the crap it is

― Poliopolice, Thursday, 23 February 2012 19:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

do they not have guns in england? wtf

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:58 (11 years ago) Permalink
i bet he was stabbed by a "hooligan"

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 19:59 (11 years ago) Permalink
possibly a scallywag

― robin (robin), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 20:07 (11 years ago) Permalink

Rascal brings nothing new to the malt liquor warped table that is mainstream, american hip-hop. However, this fact can only aid his conquest for fifteen minute attention and success. More accent than he is wit, more hype than he is hope, Rascal will be old news on the street by 2005.

― Kevin M. Falahee, Monday, 16 February 2004 04:21 (11 years ago) Permalink

Why should I get excited about nine millimeters ending debates when in American songs the guns actually GO OFF?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 February 2004 22:57 (11 years ago) Permalink

A knife? Oh, how hardcore.

Ayia Napa bo indeed.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 09:29 (11 years ago) Permalink

50 Cent's raised the bar, this papercut nonsense ain't gonna cut it stateside

― James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 11:17 (11 years ago) Permalink

Perhaps if Dizzee was stabbed 8 times, then he might be on Fiddisen's level. As it stands, I'm reminded of Rich Hall's stand-up routine on the comparative dangers of America and the UK? "A knife? Being stabbed would be fucking nostalgic. I ain't seen a knife since West Side Story"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 9 July 2003 12:18 (11 years ago) Permalink

you don't want to walk around on a council estate, you might meet a RUFFIAN or a THUGGISH GOON.

― adam.r.l. (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 23:41 (10 years ago) Permalink

What ho my nizzler

― Alienus Quam Reproba (blueski), Wednesday, 16 February 2005 23:46 (10 years ago) Permalink

(are there any grime tracks about knives/fights? "Mi Penknife Weighs a Ton" or something? Seriously?)

― David Merryweather (DavidM), Thursday, 17 February 2005 00:06 (10 years ago) Permalink

grime/dizze rascal is crap why do pretentious music critics like this garbage so much? give me real us hip hop like atmosphere any day.

― Argot, Wednesday, 16 February 2005 17:31 (10 years ago) Permalink

i agree. grime is just a really cheap version of hip hop if you ask me. i mean, just look at that terrible run the road compilation that pitchfork were praising, i downloaded it and it's just poor hip hop with horrible british accents over the top. i don't get why the critics love all this stuff though it's probably for similar reasons to why they like mia ie they want to look cool.

― critic hater, Wednesday, 16 February 2005 19:46 (10 years ago) Permalink

and i agree about atmosphere too, atleast they have good lyrics as well as music. run the road is just another bad copy of hip hop, the brits will never get it right and should just give up really.

― critic hater, Wednesday, 16 February 2005 20:21 (10 years ago) Permalink

seriously, can someone explain the appeal? especially of dizzee?

i have the original grime comp on rephlex and i like it. reminds me a lot more of older industrial stuff than anything else. i also have the impression the artists on that comp are a bunch of white-guy bedroom rocking outsiders. but i can't find anything appealing about this squeaky-voiced dude with no rhythmn and lame rhymes (like rhyming 'there' with 'their').

i was really excited about this genre when i first heard of it. i was prepped for it when i heard it was similar to the streets's first album, which i liked alright... but once i heard it, the love for dizzee's first album just threw me for a loop. if i tried playing this stuff for any of my american hip hop friends, they would laugh me out of the party.

― ugly and mean, Monday, 25 July 2005 23:22 (9 years ago) Permalink


Well-known member

"i bet he was stabbed by a "hooligan""

this did make me think of what should be a sub strand in grime though, hooli-grime (discarda, dogzilla, etc).


bandz ahoy
You're obviously cherry-picking the worst comments but still absolutely digustipating.

Jungle ''undanceable'' LOL


bandz ahoy
Also love the macho ''stabbing is nothing'' stance of these fixed gear riding latte slurpers. (Not like us Dissensus wronguns.)

I guess ILX is to grime/jungle what Dissensus is to hip-hop/RNB i.e. clueless?


bandz ahoy
tbf, I'm surprised that ANY americans liked grime back in the early noughties. I remember posting on an american rap forum at the time and the general perception of british people rapping being somewhere on the same level of esteem as child abusers.

I wonder if this has changed since, and if that could be partly cos the range of accents you hear in rap music now is so much wider.


Well-known member
tbf, I'm surprised that ANY americans liked grime back in the early noughties. I remember posting on an american rap forum at the time and the general perception of british people rapping being somewhere on the same level of esteem as child abusers.

I wonder if this has changed since, and if that could be partly cos the range of accents you hear in rap music now is so much wider.

grime never got anywhere here, aside from with a small constituency of hipster music nerds. certainly never made it to any level of commercial success.


bandz ahoy
grime/dizze rascal is crap why do pretentious music critics like this garbage so much? give me real us hip hop like atmosphere any day.

― Argot, Wednesday, 16 February 2005 17:31 (10 years ago) Permalink



Well-known member
i guess i shouldn't put too much emphasis on the fact that most grime mcs are black and urban. right? that doesn't matter. it's the sounds and it's all subjective and it's not really real, no one is suffering, everything is fine, he's from hackney and he hacks knees, how clever
― cloverlandthug, Thursday, 15 January 2004 03:50 (11 years ago) Permalink


Well-known member
Mock me if you like, but PM Dawn's "Set Adrift On Memory Bliss" can choke me up as thoroughly as any song in any genre ever has.
I'd agree that there are limitations or at least tendencies to the emotional terrain that hip-hop covers -- but I think that's true of any genre really. Which is why it's important to me to listen to a variety of genres, depending on my mood.
― Ian White, Saturday, 10 March 2001 01:00 (14 years ago) Permalink


Well-known member
my definition of a boombastic jazz style (wash your face in my sink). howzabout ll cool j's "i need love" or kool keith "the girls don't like the job". wu tang make me dreadfully sad and tearful with their uninspired production & tedious milking of the getto "schtick". rise above like black flag said. representing my arse -resenting more like - what ever happened to the imagination exemplified by i dunno prbly poor example - but egyptian lover's "egypt,egypt" or "girls" or grandmaster's "scorpio"? howzabout clouddead? or 2 live crew's "private dancer" that exudes a real sense of desperation & loneliness - it depends how you read it.
― bob snoom, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (13 years ago) Permalink


Well-known member
U Our local scene is quite vibrant, geordie accents and rap go well together, the content beats all the ' mo'bills an' ho's'' end of the U.S. market - soon enough we'll have our Mannie Fresh
― Geordie Racer, Friday, 13 April 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink

You want underground? You want street cred? Look for Edan. You want street cred and the new-hip-hop-prog movement? Look for Deltron 3030.
― JM, Saturday, 4 August 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

The last hip-hop album I think I actually bought was New Kingdom's PARADISE DON'T COME CHEAP (which had two great singles, "Mexico or Bust" and "Co-Pilot") and that was what? 1996? I miss the days when hip-hop seemed to be exploring more adventurous avenues (the Native Tongue stuff, Dream Warriors, Tribe Called Quest), but it's all yawnsome playa-bling-bling-whatever crap now (to my ears at least).
― Alex in NYC, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

I swear by Edan, who's so obscure you can really only get his shit off of... Edan. Company Flow is legendary around here as are Non Phixon who's "I Shot Regan" never really made it out of the mixing stage -- finding the album is harder than all get out. The last Pharcyde album was great. Thirstin Howl is hilarious and Brooklyn Hard. Look out for The Last Emperor, the new Can Ox... uh... albums... Deltron 3030 is interspectacular... Handsome Boy, Quality Control...
― JM, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

I don't know if Talib Kweli is still considered underground, but I can't get enough.
I like Dalek's album a lot, though it could use a bit more 'meat' in certain ways.
Hiphop or not, I think a good portion of Saul William's album is brilliant.
The new Dilated Peoples is GRATE (whee, I've been waiting to use that lovely word for quite a while).
-- Jordan, Thursday, November 1, 2001 7:00 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark Link

Actually, the question is slightly flawed. Hip hop isn't a musical genre, it's a lifestyle. There's four elements of hip hop: deejaying, breakdancing, rapping, and grafiti. I'm assuming you wanted good examples of the 1st and 3rd, right?
― Judd Nelson, Thursday, 16 May 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Is Ludacris some how taking the piss out of rappers? His single ('roll out'?) surely is some kind of ironic diss to bling (braindead vague party call/response hook: check), with it mentioning his naked cooks and having the big head (ego) video. Also his name implies some kind of preposterousness.
Anyway Search: Roots Manuva, Public Enemy 1987-92, Tribe called quest, Q-tip solo
Destroy MOP. forever. to bits.
― Barnaby, Friday, 17 May 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

A cultural genre encompassing the four (sometimes five) elemens: MCing, DJing, breakdancing, and graf art (sometimes including beatboxing).
― Dom Passantino, Friday, 19 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

yeah the state of hiphop is pretty bad. The bling blingers with diva's crap has to go. There is some good hiphop still coming out like J-Live, 7L and Esoteric, Eyedea, Atmosphere, Blackalicious, J5, etc. but this is the minority
― Ben Silver (Ben Silver), Wednesday, 9 April 2003 15:30 (12 years ago) Permalink

Hi, i've been reading ILM for a while now and have decided to start my first thread.
I have been listening to indie and alternative music most of my life, but in a recent shopping trip I decided to buy an album called "The War Report" by two rappers called Capone N Noreaga because it was very cheap in a sale and I liked the colours on the sleeve. This isn't the first hip hop I've ever heard but hitherto this purchase i've always been pretty ambivalent to rap music despite it being the biggest music in the world.
So anyway, I listened to the cd and really enjoyed it. The music gets a bit boring after a while, but I like the two rapper's personalities and the clear friendship and loyalty between them is very touching.
Other hip hop I have heard other than snippets on TV and radio has always been on the more "indie" side and i have never really enjoyed it. I'm aware of a large contingent of hip hop "heads" on ilm and would fully appreciate your input into this thread.
Danny S
― Danny Sewell, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 11:37 (11 years ago) Permalink

Thanks all. Can anyone tell me what the best DMX album is? I heard a song recently where he barks like a dog and he sounded like an interesting personality.
― Danny Sewell, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 13:01 (11 years ago) Permalink
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Well-known member
i mean, i should also probly make it clear i think giggs is fucking terrible. he sounds just like probly-not-even-playing-football-any-more's shabazz baidoo when he was doing his mc terminator comedy schtick. (which was just him talking like arnie.)(which everyone thought was rubbish, obv.)
― r|t|c, Monday, 15 December 2008 22:30 (6 years ago) Permalink


Well-known member
Actually r/t/c is one of the not-mugs tbf
what makes k-punk most intolerable for me, quite frankly, is that he totally lacks flair.
otoh, if the two of them think a new miserly continuum is the best available stick for beating down bullshit like zomby then MARCH ON, MY RHIZOMORPHIC NODES!!!111!
― r|t|c, Thursday, 12 February 2009 22:16 (6 years ago) Permalink

Good opinions


Well-known member
So yeah, a couple of years ago it felt like a load of British rap fans were overcompensating for pop-grime by throwing their weight behind these really limited MCs like Tempah T and Giggs and whoever, who nevertheless had impeccable hardcore credentials. That's exactly what the Hard In Da Paint bandwagon reminds me of, it just sounds lumbering and clumsy to me.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 27 January 2011 20:46 (4 years ago) Permalink