rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
of course you can do musical geneaology with jungle and trace everything 'new' about it to something previous, but as a whole, jungle as a genre/sound WAS new.
 

trza

Well-known member
I remember reading a book about jungle a long time ago, claiming the word jungle came from reggae vocal samples referring to a housing project in Kingston known as Tivoli Gardens that was nicknamed "the jungle". I am too lazy to fact check or see if its confirmed or disproved on the internet today.

Odlly, I am in a bossa nova listening phase right now, so long after my drum and bass phase.
 

droid

Well-known member
I remember reading a book about jungle a long time ago, claiming the word jungle came from reggae vocal samples referring to a housing project in Kingston known as Tivoli Gardens that was nicknamed "the jungle". I am too lazy to fact check or see if its confirmed or disproved on the internet today.

Odlly, I am in a bossa nova listening phase right now, so long after my drum and bass phase.

It was Arnett gardens. They have a football team nicknamed the 'junglists'. Highly debatable that this is the source of the name, however plausible it sounds.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
of course you can do musical geneaology with jungle and trace everything 'new' about it to something previous, but as a whole, jungle as a genre/sound WAS new.

Ironically I was in the process of trying to prove that Jungle's rhythms were unprecedented (and moreover innovation can arise from more then recombination) when I outlined how they are a descendant of the Bossa Nova, by way of Dancehall.
 

trza

Well-known member
I had been sharing some mixes of Bossa Nova from my latest musical phase under my lusophonic alter ego, but I share them with my friends and they don't listen and promoting mixes is like hitting your head against a wall anyway. I've read one good book about bossa and a couple bad ones, and downloaded every brazilian jazz album I can find over the past three years. My itunes says I have nineteen days of brazilian music on my list of stuff I intend to listen to. I never thought about describing it as "proto-jungle", but whatever you can listen to my mixes here

https://www.mixcloud.com/TristaoDaCunha/
 

droid

Well-known member
The Latin influence of Dancehall is clear - though it must be said that it is but one influence, restricted primarily to the 'Bam Bam' rhythm, which I was told was called simply 'the pattern' in Jamaica, and is the primary rhythmic template for Reggaeton, and also the 'bom-bom--click, triplet kick/snare pattern established by the Punanny and popularised in the early 90s. Also complicating things there is the influence of Bhangra.

Very interesting observation, but Im not sure you can draw a line of rhythmic influence to jungle though.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
A cursory google search of 'new music genre':

Kawaii Metal/Cute Metal

Bongo Flava - supposedly one of those genres that have spread beyond initial geography in the 2010's

PBR&B

Stadium Dolewave

Intergalactic hip hop

Tropical Goth

Babylon Style

Orchestral Dream Pop

Lounge Goth

PC Music

Flutedrop
 

rubberdingyrapids

Well-known member
maybe its good that music isnt so obsessed with the new. allows you to focus on other things, like personality, songcraft, melody, etc. also maybe its like pop/music rebelling against capitalism's need to constantly sell you something new just for the sake of it. also a challenge to writers to come up with something to say - its easier when something is obviously innovative.
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
maybe its good that music isnt so obsessed with the new. allows you to focus on other things, like personality, songcraft, melody, etc. also maybe its like pop/music rebelling against capitalism's need to constantly sell you something new just for the sake of it. also a challenge to writers to come up with something to say - its easier when something is obviously innovative.


Sonic innovations tend to be accompanied by wider ideological and/or aesthetic shifts as well, so I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Likewise, I don't see a correlation between sonic stagnation and increased personality, innovators like John Lydon, miles Davis and sun ra were all big personalities.
 

CrowleyHead

Well-known member
So how does one look on the fact from a Capitalist perspective that the music industry just wants to repeatedly remind you of say, 100 or so artists who they have a situation where they can continuously re-release product from and know a public will obediently purchase it? I'm just reflecting on the constant re-rinsing of canonical artists and how that appears to be how major labels seem to thrive, by flogging those back catalogs as a resource and dealing with new music in a rather limited and distancing manner.
 

luka

Well-known member
I'm just reflecting on the constant re-rinsing of canonical artists and how that appears to be how major labels seem to thrive, by flogging those back catalogs as a resource and dealing with new music in a rather limited and distancing manner.

Craner will tell you all about this trend in publishing (books) too cunts pls leave us alone
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
Sonic innovations tend to be accompanied by wider ideological and/or aesthetic shifts as well, [/QUOTE
QUOTE]

Yeah?

Acid/Psychedelic Rock- Hippies/Pacifism/Age of Aquarius/Sexual Revolution/Etc - Tie dye/psychadelia (later again with Balearic, madchester/ rave etc.)

Gangsta Rap- Gangsta/Hustle/Realness/Street- Baggy cloths/low trousers/etc.

Synthpop- New Romantics

Punk- Nihilism/Aggression/Anti-social- Safety pins/mohawks/ripped genes

Metal- Occultism/ Satanism/ Fantasy- Pentagrams/ Devil horns

Reggae- Rastafarianism- Red,gold,green/dreadlocks


etc.
 
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mistersloane

heavy heavy monster sound
So how does one look on the fact from a Capitalist perspective that the music industry just wants to repeatedly remind you of say, 100 or so artists who they have a situation where they can continuously re-release product from and know a public will obediently purchase it? I'm just reflecting on the constant re-rinsing of canonical artists and how that appears to be how major labels seem to thrive, by flogging those back catalogs as a resource and dealing with new music in a rather limited and distancing manner.

Two ideas -
http://www.xenosystems.net/freedoom-prelude-1a/
(3) Entropy (considered, properly, as an inherently teleological process) is the driver of all complex systems. Capital Teleology does not trend towards an entropy maximum, however, but to an escalation of entropy dissipation. It exploits the entropic current to travel backwards, into cybernetically-intensified pathway states of enhanced complexity and intelligence. The ‘progress’ of capitalism is an accentuation of disequilibrium.

and Rob ~Playford talking about producing Goldie
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun98/articles/goldie.html
'The breakbeat is actually made up of two mono files on the sampler, which I adjusted separately, so that when I stuck them together, I had the break riding up and spinning around in the stereo soundfield. It sounded like nothing we'd ever heard, it was a revelation -- we listened to that for hours and hours.'
 
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