Diefreien

Active member
I would appreciate a change of scene for sure. The current paradigm clearly isn't working, fresh ideas, fresh frames, fresh divisions of people, all for it.
Oh 100%. My dad is a sort of moderate progressive and he talks about the need for a "healthy GOP" and that Trump isn't really a conservative. It seems silly to me -- at least for me it's clear that both parties are broken and unhealthy, and the leaders chosen reflect that. Honestly I'd wish we'd get an Antebellum-style collapse of both major parties and see fresher groups and ideas that more accurately reflect the people.

I have lots of criticisms for Andrew Yang, but I do think a lot of people were excited just b/c he brought new progressive ideas and is forward thinking. Now, his UBI plan would also entail just putting the minimum wage on the backburner which is obviously ass, but a lot of progressives and socialists are excited about UBI gaining popularity and want to implement it (with a livable min. wage ofc). I doubt Yang will ever hold any major office, I think he's not that much of a campaigner or an orator, and most of his positions already belong to a lot more well-recognized people from the left-wing of the party. But, I do think he is bringing interesting questions to the table that can help reshape how party politicians and members look at the future, that have previously been mostly left to forums like this one to have debates about haha

Anyways, the GOP base is on the warpath. I doubt they're gonna abandon Trump or that brand of right-wing pseudo-populism they have going on rn. It'll depend of the left to reinvent the Dems and themselves after 50+ years of hibernation.
 

Leo

Well-known member
Anyways, the GOP base is on the warpath. I doubt they're gonna abandon Trump or that brand of right-wing pseudo-populism they have going on rn. It'll depend of the left to reinvent the Dems and themselves after 50+ years of hibernation.

look no further: Trump Emerges From Impeachment Trial With Sturdy Backing From GOP Voters
  • 59% of GOP voters said Trump should play a “major role” in the Republican Party going forward, up 18 points since a Jan. 6-7 survey.
  • The share of Republicans who said Trump is at least somewhat responsible for the events of Jan. 6 is down 14 points, to 27%, from early January.
 

Diefreien

Active member
Oh man, yeah that's brutal. Just saw this today - Trump unloads on McConnell, promises MAGA primary challengers.

"Sens. Richard Burr (R-N.C.) and Bill Cassidy (R-La.) have been censured by their state parties for voting to convict Trump. State parties in Nebraska, Pennsylvania and Maine plan to discuss potential punitive measures against Sens. Ben Sasse (R-Neb.), Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) and Susan Collins (R-Maine), who also voted to convict.

State parties already censured Reps. Liz Cheney (Wyo.) and Tom Rice (R-S.C.) for their votes to impeach Trump. The former president’s allies in the House tried to strip Cheney of her leadership post and have already begun campaigning against her."

The Republicans are mutilating themselves. Honestly, next third-party movement may not come from the left but from the battered Republicans in hotly-contested primaries. I could imagine a future where you'll regularly have three-way races. A MAGA candidate, a "regular" Republican candidate, and a Democrat. So if a MAGA candidate wins the GOP primary, the "regular" Republican runs as an independent, or vice-versa. It'll be interesting to see the state party machinery pick their sides, and I think that will be the ultimate battle ground. Of course there is talks of splitting from the GOP and forming a center-right party but I doubt that'll come to fruition. The American right isn't used to splits, mergers, and third-parties like the left are -- it'll just be bloody primary after bloody primary.

Although I was talking with someone else earlier, and they have their doubts that my imagined three-way races scenario would go down. That the Bush-Romney wing of the party would challenge in primaries, sure, but would never run as independents. At the same time however there are some fissures, you did have the Senate race in deep-red Arkansas this past November, where the Libertarian candidate got 33% of the votes. I think if anywhere there will be a hard-split among the GOP, it'd be in New England, particularly in Connecticut and Maine where you have a history of third-party centrists from both parties running in state elections.
 

Leo

Well-known member
New England also home to the only two senators who are independents, although they caucus with the Dems.
 

Leo

Well-known member
Leo could you copy & paste this for the Lads do you think? would be warmly appreciated


anything for you, and the lads.

They Are Not the Resistance. They Are Not a Cabal. They Are Public Servants.​

Let us now praise these not-silent heroes.

By Michelle Cottle
Ms. Cottle is a member of the editorial board.

Oct. 20, 2019

President Trump is right: The deep state is alive and well. But it is not the sinister, antidemocratic cabal of his fever dreams. It is, rather, a collection of patriotic public servants — career diplomats, scientists, intelligence officers and others — who, from within the bowels of this corrupt and corrupting administration, have somehow remembered that their duty is to protect the interests, not of a particular leader, but of the American people.

Fiona Hill, Michael McKinley and the whistle-blower who effectively initiated the impeachment investigation — when these folks saw something suspicious, they said something. Their aim was not to bring down Mr. Trump out of personal or political animus but to rescue the Republic from his excesses. Those who refuse to silently indulge this president’s worst impulses qualify as heroes — and deserve our gratitude.

Throughout the Trump presidency, there has been a trickle of fed-up individuals willing to step up and protest the administration’s war on science, expertise and facts.

In July, Rod Schoonover left his job as an analyst for the State Department after the administration blocked the submission to Congress of his report on the national security implications of climate change.

In July 2017, Joel Clement, formerly the director of the Office of Policy Analysis at the Interior Department, filed a whistle-blower complaint alleging that the administration had reassigned him to an accounting position in retaliation for publicly speaking out on the potential dangers of climate change to Alaska Native communities.

In August, Lewis Ziska, a veteran plant physiologist with the Agriculture Department, quit in protest over the administration’s efforts to bury his findings about the negative impact of rising levels of carbon dioxide on the nutrient content of rice. “You get the sense that things have changed, that this is not a place for you to be exploring things that don’t agree with someone’s political views,” Mr. Ziska told Politico at the time. “That’s so sad. I can’t even begin to tell you how sad that is.”

With an impeachment inquiry underway in the House, the risks of breaking ranks with the president are higher than ever. Mr. Trump prides himself on punching back against perceived enemies, publicly suggesting that “spies” and “traitors” and people who turn “rat” deserve to have their lives and their families destroyed. Small wonder that few congressional Republicans have dared express even gentle concern over Mr. Trump’s increasingly erratic behavior.

But still the patriots come. Top of the list, of course, is the still-anonymous whistle-blower who touched off the impeachment drama by registering his concerns about Mr. Trump’s clandestine effort to pressure Ukraine into conducting investigations that would benefit his re-election campaign. The concerns enumerated in the complaint have since been verified and magnified by multiple administration insiders, despite the White House’s stonewalling mandate.

On Monday, Congress heard from Ms. Hill, the former top national security adviser on Russia and Europe, who detailed how Mr. Trump had done an end run around his own national security team, putting Ukraine policy in the hands of unqualified dilettantes like Gordon Sondland, whose $1 million donation to the Trump inaugural basically bought him the title of ambassador to the European Union, and Rudy Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer and favorite henchman.

On Wednesday, Mr. McKinley, a top adviser to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo until this month, told Congress that he’d resigned in frustration over the administration’s disparaging and shunting aside career diplomats, as well as its using ambassadors overseas to advance the president’s re-election aims. (He put it more diplomatically, as one would expect.)

A week and a half ago, Marie Yovanovitch, the former ambassador to Ukraine, testified that Mr. Trump prematurely recalled her in May, allegedly as a result of a whisper campaign by Mr. Giuliani and some of his associates, two of whom were arrested Oct. 9 on federal charges of violating campaign finance laws. “I do not know Mr. Giuliani’s motives for attacking me,” Ms. Yovanovitch told lawmakers. “But individuals who have been named in the press as contacts of Mr. Giuliani may well have believed that their personal financial ambitions were stymied by our anti-corruption policy in Ukraine.”

Presumably, Ms. Yovanovitch, a veteran diplomat and actual expert on Ukraine, had also proved an annoying hindrance to Mr. Giuliani pursuing his shadow agenda.

Right on cue, Mr. Trump’s lackeys are responding to such breaches of fealty by going on the attack. In a media briefing on Thursday, the White House acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, dismissedthe witnesses who had spoken to impeachment investigators: “What you are seeing now, I believe, is a group of mostly career bureaucrats who are saying, ‘You know what, I don’t like President Trump’s politics, so I’m going to participate in this witch hunt.’”

That may be what Mr. Mulvaney hears when he listens to these men and women. But many, many others will hear veteran public servants appalled by an administration that continues to subvert the public interest to the whims of a president who has mistaken himself for a king.

This is Mr. Trump’s deep state. For the sake of the nation, the American public should be clamoring for more patriots to join the conspiracy.
 

polystyle

Well-known member
Oh 100%. My dad is a sort of moderate progressive and he talks about the need for a "healthy GOP" and that Trump isn't really a conservative. It seems silly to me -- at least for me it's clear that both parties are broken and unhealthy, and the leaders chosen reflect that. Honestly I'd wish we'd get an Antebellum-style collapse of both major parties and see fresher groups and ideas that more accurately reflect the people.

I have lots of criticisms for Andrew Yang, but I do think a lot of people were excited just b/c he brought new progressive ideas and is forward thinking. Now, his UBI plan would also entail just putting the minimum wage on the backburner which is obviously ass, but a lot of progressives and socialists are excited about UBI gaining popularity and want to implement it (with a livable min. wage ofc). I doubt Yang will ever hold any major office, I think he's not that much of a campaigner or an orator, and most of his positions already belong to a lot more well-recognized people from the left-wing of the party. But, I do think he is bringing interesting questions to the table that can help reshape how party politicians and members look at the future, that have previously been mostly left to forums like this one to have debates about haha

Anyways, the GOP base is on the warpath. I doubt they're gonna abandon Trump or that brand of right-wing pseudo-populism they have going on rn. It'll depend of the left to reinvent the Dems and themselves after 50+ years of hibernation.

Had to go back and read what has been said ...

* To note : Yang is running for NY mayor, has the best name recognition and some early ( small ) what Post likes to call 'missteps'. Has a good chance of winning.
Projecting forward to the CCP's reaction to him as NY mayor.

And then today it came down

"
Rush Limbaugh1951–2021

Conservative provocateur and nation’s most popular radio talk-show host dies at 70

Rush Limbaugh deployed comic bombast and relentless bashing of liberals, feminists and environmentalists to become a cultural phenomenon and lead the Republican Party into a politics of anger and obstruction. His domination of the airwaves helped shape a generation of conservative politicians. "

Will just leave it at that !
 

sufi

осом
a good day. as a Russian friend of mine is fond of saying, "very symbolic"

I actually set foot in that building about 10 years ago... it was clear that Turnip was a joke and a loser even then, and the place was a shabby dive
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I fucking hope Clinton had Rush bumped off... it kinda puts all of his researchers and producers and so on who presumably also know Clinton's secret right in the firing line though. Let's see how many of them suspiciously die of cancer over the next few days. She'll have to move quickly though they must know that they possess dangerous knowledge.
 
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