IdleRich

IdleRich
The problem is, this has been going on to varying degrees throughout the entire Trump presidency and in the year since, and it hasn't been considered beyond the pale for a lot of people so far.

But before people could say I like the Rep party not Trump cos there was a distinction between them... now the party have just announced that the distinction is meaningless and that stance is no longer tenable.

The Pence pushback is interesting. He's too much of a politician to make such statements without political ends in mind, wonder if he's smelling the blood in the water.

He can hardly say "Trump is right, I coulda changed the results and made him president but I chose not to" can he?
 

Leo

Well-known member
He can hardly say "Trump is right, I coulda changed the results and made him president but I chose not to" can he?

but until now, he hasn't really said anything on the subject. Trump has taunted him for over a year, yet Pence chooses now to push back. There must be a reason, these things don't just happen.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
I see what you're saying. Isn't Trump touring right now though and pushing that particular lie hard? Could be a factor, i dunno.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
What's he doing? Jealous that that guy has the nuts to look even more bored than him and then actually fall asleep? Or is he just thinking "Is that... it is... a man in a dress. What is wrong with these moselems? When can I eat a burger?"
 

Leo

Well-known member
Accounting Firm Cuts Ties With Trump and Retracts Financial Statements

Donald J. Trump’s longtime accounting firm abruptly cut ties with his family business last week amid ongoing criminal and civil investigations into whether Mr. Trump illegally inflated the value of his assets, court documents filed on Monday show. In a letter to the Trump Organization on Feb. 9, the accounting firm notified the company of its decision and disclosed that it could no longer stand behind annual financial statements it prepared for Mr. Trump. The firm, Mazars USA, compiled the financial statements based on information the former president and his company provided.

The letter instructed the Trump Organization to essentially retract the documents, known as statements of financial condition, from 2011 to 2020. In the letter, Mazars noted that the firm had not “as a whole” found material discrepancies between the information the Trump Organization provided and the actual value of Mr. Trump’s assets. But given what it called “the totality of circumstances,” the letter directed the Trump Organization to notify anyone who received the statements that they should no longer rely on them.
The statements, which Mr. Trump used to secure loans, are at the center of the two law enforcement investigations into the former president and his company. The Manhattan district attorney’s office and the office of the New York attorney general, Letitia James, have been investigating whether Mr. Trump used the statements to defraud his lenders into providing him the best possible loan terms.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Hmmm... that seems pretty lame doesn't it? I mean no-one hates Trump more than me but to suddenly change their tune because he is being investigated is pathetic. Guaranteeing his financial state for years cos it was easy money to just sign it off without checking properly... and then suddenly going "Oh don't make decisions based on what we said" after years during which loads of people have done precisely that. Surely that won't get them off the hook if it does all go tits up?
 

Leo

Well-known member
Well there must be a reason why they decided to do it instead of standing behind their work. It's certainly not an encouraging development for Trump.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Far from it.

I just think it's amazing that they've accepted the fee and signed off on these accounts for ten years and now they say that Trump deceived them and so all those statements are worthless... what exactly were they doing then? What were they being paid for?

But yeah terrible news for Trump. It has to be said that there seems to have been a fair bit of that lately yet he still clings on, staggering from one blow straight into the next... but still the knockout punch never seems to arrive.
 

Leo

Well-known member
I just think it's amazing that they've accepted the fee and signed off on these accounts for ten years and now they say that Trump deceived them and so all those statements are worthless... what exactly were they doing then? What were they being paid for?

it's the obvious answer: they're just as sleazy and corrupt as trump, and were gladly willing to participate in the fraud to make a quick buck. and if you have no morals, it's easy to claim you had no knowledge and were deceived when eventually caught.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
That's exactly it, they were happy to take some money and then simply sign off on what he said without doing their job and checking it properly and let other parties use their (Mazars') valuations to make - no doubt big and important - financial decisions, but now that he is being investigated and it may well turn out that what he said was nonsense they are disavowing it. But that's not much use to all the people during the last ten years who have loaned money to Trump based on their valuations. I seriously doubt Mazars are going to return their fee for all that work even though they have just admitted that what they did was essentially worth nothing - and even less are they gonna recompense anyone who lost money by making decisions based on their worthless work.

There is a whole industry of companies and people who audit, review, credit-score and so on other companies - and it's an important job of course cos you need an independent valuation of something to decide whether to lend them money, sell to them on credit, go into business with them etc etc - and yet how often do we read about companies providing a clean bill of health to someone or something that goes hugely bankrupt? For me it feels as though it's one of the biggest scandals in the financial world - that the people and companies who are paid to check on the state of a company and whose reviews are relied on by countless other parties get away without punishment when their assessments turn out to be completely wrong.

As far as I have been able to tell, the ratings agencies that failed so badly in 2008 - they just waved everything through, which worked fine until it didn't - got away completely unscathed with no punishment and, seemingly, no damage to their reputation or credibility.

Non-executive director is pretty much the only job I have ever heard of where there is a sort of tacit understanding that no-one will actually do it properly. They are normally paid to attend one meeting every quarter or so and as a rule they get an awful lot of money for very little work. In theory the non-execs are supposed keep some kind of watch on the executives and prevent them from fucking up but I can't think of a single time when non-execs have somehow managed to restrain the people they were supposed to be watching and save a company. In fact what normally happens is it's pretty obvious that the job is viewed is money for nothing and when a company goes bust they are surprised to discover there was something they were supposed to have been doing.

At least when it emerged that Arthur Anderson's auditing of Enron was worthless then AA actually went down with Enron though Anderson Consulting had just split off from the parent company and was able to survive. That's one of the rare cases that I can think of when the guys who assured everyone that the totally fucked company didn't manage to get away with their criminal incompetence. The fact that they went out of business felt like a fair punishment and satisfying in that way... but as it just reduced the "big five" auditing firms to a "big four" meaning even fewer companies that could possibly audit huge companies, with less competition and no doubt ever cosier relationships between checker and checkee, I can't help thinking it did nothing to deal with the problem as a whole.

But anyway, that's besides the main point, which is that Trump's own accountants are saying that his own valuations of his properties are unsafe... which means that he almost certainly lied about them, either to secure loans for more than they were worth, or to illegally decrease his tax liability - or, and let's face it, cos we're talking Trump it's the most likely, for both. Both pretty serious crimes I'd have thought.
 
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IdleRich

IdleRich
And there's more... I've been quickly reading a bit about this to try and understand what this means. I think that the following is correct; publicly traded companies have to have a full audit done every year and made available to anyone who might happen by their shares on the stock market i.e the audit has to be available to the general public. Private companies, such as the Trump Organisation, are obviously not listed publicly and so there is no legal requirement for them to produce an audit every year which is available to the public. The public has no exposure to them and so there is no need for the same sort of transparency to the general public. However, companies that lend to a private company obviously require some kind of assurance that their money is safe and that the company to which they are lending the money is indeed a going concern - and one obvious way for them to go about this is for them to make their loan conditional on an independently signed off audit - in fact probably they could ask for a full audit or a part audit or various types of things on a sort of sliding scale of rigorousness, I dunno.

The point is, many entities have loaned money to the Trump Organisation and it is probably the case that those loans are conditional on TO having a signed off independent audit. And as they now don't have that, then companies could instantly call in their debts... or maybe charge punitive interest or even apply for a winding-up notice if they feel that the company can't pay them. Very bad news indeed for the company - and rather fitting if it were brought down entirely because of the spotlight that fell on it due to Trump's presidency.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Although actually it says the TO got in some other accountants ages ago so maybe they knew this was coming and will be able to replace them with another independent audit instantly to prevent the loans being called in.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
The Trump Organisation is spinning this as great news....

TrumpOrganisationRidiculousLie.jpeg

I guess that the DA and AG will be entirely convinced by that last bit and instantly drop all their investigations.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
One thing that is quite interesting is that over the last couple of days MAGA has been flogging the Hilary spied on the President story like crazy, they were saying that Durham's latest release was big news - however many were pointing out that it wasn't really anything new and they were saying that it was likely that this was a distraction from some bad news that was about to come out. Now i tend to be suspicious about that kind of thing but seeing as this massive Trump turd has just plopped out maybe there was something in it after all.
 

Mr. Tea

Let's Talk About Ceps
The name Mazars rings a bell. I think I recall them auditing our department when I worked in the civil service. Or maybe they just pretended to.

Then again, I'm sure we were a lot less lucrative than the Trump Organization.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
Eric Trump (the thick one) is apparently taking AG Leticia James to court - he is claiming that by vindictively revealing their lies she is responsible for Mazars dumping them.

That leaves me one question - is this pic real? I'm gonna say it's something that is not actually true in itself but which does reveal a deeper truth even so.

FJd8GWPWYAge2Jm.jpeg
 

woops

is not like other people
Eric Trump (the thick one) is apparently taking AG Leticia James to court - he is claiming that by vindictively revealing their lies she is responsible for Mazars dumping them.

That leaves me one question - is this pic real? I'm gonna say it's something that is not actually true in itself but which does reveal a deeper truth even so.

View attachment 10479
Have they been watching twin peaks?
 
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