K-Punk

thirdform

Well-known member
Spoken like a true conservative.

How so? I apply that just as much to tradition. Although traditionalism is a wholly modern phenomenon it does rely on decontextualised codifications to propound itself.

I admit this position is far from the traditional left wing position though, but I'd say its more nihilistic than wanting to conserve. I have no desire to do that. I'm more karagöz mocking the enlightened Hacivat.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
The central theme of the plays are the contrasting interaction between the two main characters. They are perfect foils of each other: in the Turkish version Karagöz represents the illiterate but straightforward public, whereas Hacivat belongs to the educated class, speaking Ottoman Turkish and using a poetical and literary language. Although Karagöz has definitely been intended to be the more popular character with the Turkish peasantry, Hacivat is always the one with a level head. Though Karagöz always outdoes Hacivat's superior education with his "native wit," he is also very impulsive and his never-ending deluge of get-rich-quick schemes always results in failure. In the Greek version Hacivat (Hatziavatis) is the more educated Turk who works for the Ottoman state, and often represents the Pasha, or simply law and order, whereas Karagöz (Karagiozis) is the poor peasant Greek, nowadays with Greek-specific attributes of the raya.
Hacivat continually attempts to "domesticate” Karagöz, but never makes progress. According to Turkish dramaturge Kırlı, Hacivat emphasizes the upper body with his refined manners and aloof disposition, while Karagöz is more representational of "the lower body with eating, cursing, defecation and the phallus."
 
 

jenks

thread death
Reading the lectures at the moment and what I like about them is the insight into Mark as a teacher rather than as a writer. There’s gentle humour in there and lovely way he’s working with his students to get to grips with some of the ideas. There is something very endearing that is missing from some of the more austere iterations of k-punk.
 

john eden

male pale and stale
Last Friday’s Mark Fisher Memortal Lecture with Test Dept and the ICRN lot is up on YouTube. It’s ok.... but I say that as a huge fan of Test Dept.
 
Reading the lectures at the moment and what I like about them is the insight into Mark as a teacher rather than as a writer. There’s gentle humour in there and lovely way he’s working with his students to get to grips with some of the ideas. There is something very endearing that is missing from some of the more austere iterations of k-punk.

it’s very moving to see someone teach passionately isn’t it. It’s hard to come by outside of school and unis etc cos we’re resistant to this mode as sensible adults who already know everything! parents experience all the time and I sometimes do as uncle. but if I do a wee class or someone is showing me something or I’m showing someone something I’m always thinking in the back of my head, this is really beautiful
 

john eden

male pale and stale
I didnt catch it but Jim reviewed it for me

"that mark fisher lecture was so boring, Test Dept WTF? jeez, some old self righteous metal bashers"
Yeah it’s a tough sell. They were genuinely amazing in the eighties. And not bad in the nineties. And here we are in 2021.
 
It makes me think about how much I like this place and how sometimes I think we can get it wrong in how we engage with each other, combative rather than collaborative. Getting that balance right is crucial
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
It makes me think about how much I like this place and how sometimes I think we can get it wrong in how we engage with each other, combative rather than collaborative. Getting that balance right is crucial
shut it dweeb!
 
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