Miscellaneous Feminism Thread

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
You could look at it like that I guess but on the other hand it's a fairly radical and ambitious Reality-Update and it's hardly surprising it's ruffled a few feathers
 

suspended

Well-known member
I think we need to cut all the diagnostic silliness out completely. It's just a little circus act, they'll dispense the pills so long as you say the magic words. It's not a diagnosis if the only criteria is self-identifying, that's just called self-election. Free the hormones! OTC! Gender's fake, be whatever you want to be! This is the only acceptable liberal position.
 

poetix

we murder to dissect
On a similar basis I would like to be able to go to my local chemist and say "I'd like some Adderall please" and maybe they'd say "for ADHD?" and I'd say "yes, possibly, I want to try them to see if they help me with things like executive function, and if they do then that will certainly lend weight to my hypothesis that I might have ADHD or, you know, it might be a component of whatever this bundle of comorbidities I'm walking around with is", and they'd say "cool, let me know how it goes, good luck"
 

poetix

we murder to dissect
I agree of course with Luka that the gender explosion is a significant shift in the way our reality's put together, and it's weird to me seeing younger people talking about it like it's a kind of common sense everybody should have always had. But a good kind of weird for the most part.

The world of my early teens, the mid to late 80s, was just incredibly homophobic by today's standards, everyday homophobia at school and on the streets backed up and reinforced by really hardcore ideological homophobia being pumped out by telly, newspapers, teachers, politicians and religious leaders. People still do get hospitalised by marauding queerbashers now, but there's less of a sense these days that almost the whole of our society is standing behind the enforcers cheering them on. The anti-trans stuff now reminds me of then, it's like all the meathead thugs and poisonous littlejohns who use to pick on gay people have found a new hobby. They need seeing off with extreme prejudice.
 

suspended

Well-known member
On a similar basis I would like to be able to go to my local chemist and say "I'd like some Adderall please" and maybe they'd say "for ADHD?" and I'd say "yes, possibly, I want to try them to see if they help me with things like executive function, and if they do then that will certainly lend weight to my hypothesis that I might have ADHD or, you know, it might be a component of whatever this bundle of comorbidities I'm walking around with is", and they'd say "cool, let me know how it goes, good luck"
DSM categories seem about as constructed as gender so I'm on-board. Down with object-oriented diagnostic paradigms! In with functionalist self-election!
 

suspended

Well-known member
The obvious problem here is that most people are not as responsible, or informed, as Poetix. What we really need is a smartypants pass. You prove you're a smartypants who can handle yr shit and they give you a pass you take to the drugstore. "You want how much methamphetamine?" "DW, I have a smartypants pass, I'm using it to read a stack of sociology papers."
 

suspended

Well-known member
OTOH if Corpsey wants to buy an eightball and have a wankathon, I'm not sure the authorities should be allowed to stop him.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
The 'debate' definitely provides cover for aggression thuggishness etc which is part of the reason I don't have any faith in the 'debate' and I don't think there is some magic combination of words which solves the problem and makes the conflict melt away even if it's logically consistent and artfully constructed.

it seems to be something more like an applied experiment or a series of experiments across a number of sites and we will wait and see what results we get, and the results might differ, you might get a mix of responses across for instance

Women's sports, womens contact sports, women's prizes (literary, acting, whatever prizes), women's toilets, women's quotas on various bodies, women's prisons, so on and so forth.

Again I see it as something to be worked out in real time with real people's lives and real painful consequences.
 

IdleRich

IdleRich
The obvious problem here is that most people are not as responsible, or informed, as Poetix. What we really need is a smartypants pass. You prove you're a smartypants who can handle yr shit and they give you a pass you take to the drugstore. "You want how much methamphetamine?" "DW, I have a smartypants pass, I'm using it to read a stack of sociology papers."
Kinda the opposite of the card in this

 

thirdform

Well-known member
I think we need to cut all the diagnostic silliness out completely. It's just a little circus act, they'll dispense the pills so long as you say the magic words. It's not a diagnosis if the only criteria is self-identifying, that's just called self-election. Free the hormones! OTC! Gender's fake, be whatever you want to be! This is the only acceptable liberal position.

I mean I don't understand this argument on its own terms. Do those people who believe they are opposing a liberal position actually materially opposing it? If not its just a cliché, and a shit one at that.
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
It's not supposed to make sense. It's a logic bomb designed to scramble circuits. Not making sense is the whole point. He's an anti rationalist like me.
 

WashYourHands

Well-known member
Long read, complex factors. I don’t know how she consented to parts of her career, as the awfulness of some experiences and more positive flow states she outlines “working” seem interdependent when you have that many partners

 

catalog

Well-known member
It's not supposed to make sense. It's a logic bomb designed to scramble circuits. Not making sense is the whole point. He's an anti rationalist like me.
From Pynchon, in 'Against the day' :

"Explosion without an objective is politics in its purest form".
 

luka

Well-known member
Staff member
I got halfway (a lot of pages) and thought, this is irritating me intensely, it's the custard pie hot air balloon scene spread over 2000 pages and innumerable man hours, why am I doing this to myself
 

catalog

Well-known member
i'm 150 or so pages in and enjoying it so far, all the stuff about light and electricity. it's hard to keep up with him, cos he keeps introducing another character with a strange name, but so far not overstretched... it does remind me of GR quite a bit but is far more restrained and clear.
 
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