Tunes that Spawned a Thousand Imitators

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
but tbh Why is the greatest, most important record the English have ever produced.

better than Sabbath, better than every cool post-punk band, every jungle 12", all the 80s jazz-funk, every grime record.

better than Shakespeare, Chaucer, and the Magna Carta.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
seriously tho the beauty of d-beat + diy hardcore is the same as grime. young people making a racket. drilling right down to the raw.

leave aside any latter veneers of respectability, and tell me how the first Discharge 7" isn't the same exact thing as Pulse X
 

thirdform

Well-known member
I went through a bit of a grind and d-beat phase a while back (and trust me, there's shitloads of it) so I'm tempted to agree w padraig re sabbath. + discharge fucking rule. see the thing about metal is that a lot of time it's actually (whispers) prog (rock)s bastard child, hence why musicality and technical dexterity is valued so much in the scene, apart from the vocals yer average metalhead is pretty uninterested in heavy dissonance and atonality, some jazzier stuff like gorguts, cynic and meshuggah excluded. The critics won't admit it, of course. Whereas grind doesn't have any of those operatic classical pretensions.

Anyway the three things that eventually turned me off were:
1) excessive reliance on the blast beat — I really like drums and an interesting rhythm section.
2) after you've heard the canon the vocals just end up being really uninteresting.
3) lack of engagement with black and non-western musics.
 

padraig (u.s.)

a monkey that will go ape
grind and d-beat phase
basically agree w/everything you said w/1 big caveat - can't just lump those things together. lotta grind bands utilize some d-beats, and there's a blurry crust/grind edge esp in the early wot do u call it days, but they're not the same. in short, grindcore is death metal by + for the punx, d-beat is one of the two main hardcore blueprints (the other is American: Minor Threat via Bad Brains, + optional Greg Ginn guitar breaks). Discharge are broadly an influence on Napalm Death etc but there's a whole different lineage of hardcore + metal kids around the globe playing faster + faster (Deep Wound, D.R.I., Larm, etc) that culminates in ND/Repulsion etc ca. 1985.

your critiques are all valid. hardcore in virtually every iteration is about execution rather than innovation. such innovation as there is, is usually finding ways to slightly tweak existing formulas. having said that, the punk side of extreme guitar musics in general is full of fucking amazing drummers. + tbf there is a long history of flirtation with noise, esp on the powerviolence side (Man Is the Bastard/The Bastard Is Man, etc), and some grindcore too.

big thing I think is if you tweak those formulas too much in certain directions, it's no longer hardcore (or pv, grind, whatever). not only that, but you lose the power which is its main strength. this isn't a tempo thing, you can play slow - Flipper, latter Black Flag, etc - but it precludes engagement with dancier, non-gtr band things in general. there have been instances - The Big Boys are a good example but their later punk-funk stuff while good isn't really hardcore by any stretch.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
basically agree w/everything you said w/1 big caveat - can't just lump those things together. lotta grind bands utilize some d-beats, and there's a blurry crust/grind edge esp in the early wot do u call it days, but they're not the same.
True, it was more the crowd i was hanging out with at the time, predominantly metalheads with a couple of punks. i naturally gravitated to anything that wasn't symphonic or overly technical.

Could never quite get them into jungle and hard/jackin/loop techno on my end tho. and I guess I'd have to give it back to them as I hardly listen to white gtrs anymore. (although breakcore appealed to em... hmm...)
 

CORP$EY

no mickey mouse ting
This 'd beat' thing has come up again and I've no idea what it is

It's like when I browse OKCUPID and girls list 'electro swing' as their favourite genre
 

sadmanbarty

Well-known member
actually drum question for Barty if u read this

what makes the drums interesting here? weird arty time signature I know. syncopation with the bassline? kinda post-postpunk vibe, like a half-speed Gang of Four or Killing Joke

I know what's going on in the more rock-out sections, I'm wondering about the quieter parts. I find them rhythmically compelling but I couldn't explain why.
can't hear anything interesting in the drum. didn't hear any odd time signatures either.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
This one's a two-parter, though probably quite obvious. Here's LA hippies Spirit:

 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Staff member
And, via a missing link, the last track on the Akira soundtrack:


"Can you guess what it is yet?"

(go to 4:16 if it starts at the beginning)
 
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