The Matrix vs Ghostbusters

[WashYourHands]

 

[WashYourHands]

 

[WashYourHands]

For eating Fenians

 

[sus]

The flattening of everything runs counter to the stated aim of diversity too, reducing hundreds of cultures to simply "people of color", for example.

Yeah, I think the irony is that these same groups are doing a top-down cultural imposition, from sheltered positions on the coasts onto far-away locales in a way that can be fairly called "colonialism."

 

[sus]

The flattening of everything runs counter to the stated aim of diversity too, reducing hundreds of cultures to simply "people of color", for example.

Not to mention the treatment of cultural and racial groups as ideologically homogenous—the censoring of controversies within these groups as either "Uncle Tom"-ing, false consciousness, internalized -isms, etc.

 

[linebaugh]

a fun moment was when they tried to take away speedy gonzales and mexicans said wait we love him. bastards!

 

[sus]

They respect marginalized peoples so much they dismiss huge swathes of them as "confused" or "self-hating" because they don't support cultural leftism.

 

[linebaugh]

theres probably a bit of that but I think generally the misguided cultural leftism comes more from just a lack of consideration.

 

[linebaugh]

a tiki bar rebranded in my neighborhood because they thought 'tiki' is offensive. and maybe it is but theres absolutely no way they came to that conclusion from outrage of the local midwestern Polynesian population

 

[sus]

True every name is issued from a certain gaze, but we do also have to reckon with data capture and expressing qualities in quantifiable and non-tedious ways.

I do like the concept of re-organizing racial categories in a consequentialist way, where race purely matters from a perspective of how others treat you. There's hints of this—passing privilege, light-skinned privilege. But at the same time, TBH, I think discourse at large has preserved an essentialist view of race, bordering on "one-drop" theory, instead of this more pragmatic frame.

 

[sus]

theres probably a bit of that but I think generally the misguided cultural leftism comes more from just a lack of consideration.

Sure, but is a lack of respect, and a lack of consideration, all that different?

In other words, are choices made, and opinions heard, on the actual basis of wanting to respect, & listen to, & incorporate into decision-making, the "lived experiences" of all POCs? (Protected Organizing Caucuses) Or are the pro-police views of many African-Americans actually just... inconvenient, so they're "aren't considered"?

 

[sus]

I do like the concept of re-organizing racial categories in a consequentialist way, where race purely matters from a perspective of how others treat you. There's hints of this—passing privilege, light-skinned privilege. But at the same time, TBH, I think discourse at large has preserved an essentialist view of race, bordering on "one-drop" theory, instead of this more pragmatic frame.

You see this e.g. in people who have zero connection to their """"home"""" country/continent suddenly appropriating its culture.

E.g. someone who was born in America, speaks zero Hindi, grew up among secular Western parents who were second-generation themselves, suddenly choosing to craft their entire identity around this pre-colonial culture that they "own." Dress, iconography, symbols, music.

If you remove the essentialism, and think in terms of cultures, instead of culturally constructed "races," this is really, really silly. This person has no actual connection to India. From a pragmatic perspective, their "race" basically amounts to being a little more dark-skinned than average, and potentially seeing some minor prejudice as a result.

And look, "racial pride" is a reasonable coping strategy when you're being shit on constantly for your race. It just isn't a productive one, insofar as it doubles down on the racial essentializing.

 

[version]

Not to mention the treatment of cultural and racial groups as ideologically homogenous—the censoring of controversies within these groups as either "Uncle Tom"-ing, false consciousness, internalized -isms, etc.

They're still struggling to square their hostility to "The Unvaccinated", who they view as stereotypical Trump supporters/right wingers it's fine to hate and abuse, and stories like this,

Why Only 28 Percent of Young Black New Yorkers Are Vaccinated (Published 2021)

As the Delta variant courses through New York City, many young Black New Yorkers remain distrustful of the vaccine.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Clinamenic]

I do like the concept of re-organizing racial categories in a consequentialist way, where race purely matters from a perspective of how others treat you. There's hints of this—passing privilege, light-skinned privilege. But at the same time, TBH, I think discourse at large has preserved an essentialist view of race, bordering on "one-drop" theory, instead of this more pragmatic frame.

Yeah it seems basis of the “way people treat you” is tough to reconcile with the basis of genetics/phenotypes/appaearances, and really much of this just seems like an effort to theorize away any trace of social roughness.

Personally, as far as social progress is concerned, I’d rather examine and update procedural standards and shift microeconomic incentives via policy. That said, I have a very unclear image of the system as it is.

 

[sus]

THAT SAID

I am all for supporting cultural preservation, diverse aesthetics, cosmologies, religious and iconographic systems, etc.

From the POV that these folks are, in fact, preserving and disseminating these cultures—all for it.

It's just this implicit "one-drop" ethos underlying it, and which gate-keeps who "is allowed" to preserve these cultures, that grates.

 

[Mr. Tea]

They're still struggling to square their hostility to "The Unvaccinated", who they view as stereotypical Trump supporters/right wingers it's fine to hate and abuse, and stories like this,

Why Only 28 Percent of Young Black New Yorkers Are Vaccinated (Published 2021)

As the Delta variant courses through New York City, many young Black New Yorkers remain distrustful of the vaccine.

www.nytimes.com

A crucial difference there is that black people actually have pretty good reasons to be suspicious of the medical establishment as a whole.

 

[linebaugh]

Sure, but is a lack of respect, and a lack of consideration, all that different?

In other words, are choices made, and opinions heard, on the actual basis of wanting to respect, & listen to, & incorporate into decision-making, the "lived experiences" of all POCs? (Protected Organizing Caucuses) Or are the pro-police views of many African-Americans actually just... inconvenient, so they're "aren't considered"?

youre right but I was referring more to the 'oh they just dont know whats best for them/must be self hating' justification, which is in itself a kind of consideration. not that that isnt a factor but I dont think its the primary drive. its all a very abstract/hypothetical game without any stable referent I think

 

[linebaugh]

A crucial difference there is that black people actually have pretty good reasons to be suspicious of the medical establishment as a whole.

gus reading this

 

[version]

You see this e.g. in people who have zero connection to their """"home"""" country/continent suddenly appropriating its culture.

E.g. someone who was born in America, speaks zero Hindi, grew up among secular Western parents who were second-generation themselves, suddenly choosing to craft their entire identity around this pre-colonial culture that they "own." Dress, iconography, symbols, music.

I think this is also because a lot of liberals seem to think in terms of property and transactions.

 

[version]

A crucial difference there is that black people actually have pretty good reasons to be suspicious of the medical establishment as a whole.

Yeah, but the point is it's difficult to make that argument whilst also claiming anyone apprehensive about the vaccine is evil/stupid/deserves to die and should be forced to take it or be treated as a second-class citizen.