Cafe oto vs pizza express jazz club

luka

Well-known member
yes, i'd say thats about the level id put myself on. he hates Deleuze. think hes more positive about Debord, i think....
 

thirdform

Well-known member
both Deleuze and Power love substance without form, a bad libertarian habit! Good marxists must never disavow formalism, the labour party might be counter-revolutionary criminals but their formalism clearly exercises some influences the working class. The world communist party will be a most definite organised form, a form far more destructive than covid could ever be, subjecting those old forms to an iron-fisted dictatorial obliteration.
 

thirdform

Well-known member
Sometimes you wish the performances at Oto were over that quick. 20 minutes in to someone scraping a drum, trapped in by middle aged men looking on sweatily, sipping their tulips of Kernel.

I'm pretty ideologically opposed to oto. Ben Watson said that improvisation can't be codified like punk, yet oto has done that to varying extents. They should do improv in the streets, in crematoriums, etc. Maybe even in brothels with the clientele inside.
 

luka

Well-known member
I'm pretty ideologically opposed to oto. Ben Watson said that improvisation can't be codified like punk, yet oto has done that to varying extents. They should do improv in the streets, in crematoriums, etc. Maybe even in brothels with the clientele inside.
this is Watson's beef with Oto and The Wire, well, really his beef with them is that he's been blackballed by them, but also that they have made 'the avant-garde' a safe, santitised, commodified genre, as opposed to some, like, spirit of exploration at the outer limit or whatever And obviously that is true, they have.
 

luka

Well-known member
"So we have here what looks at first like a contradiction but is actually a sign that we have left the Holy Temple of settled abstractions - also known as class society- and entered what what Gilles Deleuze called 'the polyvocal real' but never had the Leninist stamina to penetrate himself."
 

luka

Well-known member
everyone looks like me. they have, as grave mentions, tulips of Kernel (you're not allowed pints, you might get rowdy and disturb the reverent listening silence).
 
There is probably a gap in the market for an old man pub that plays jungle, garage and occasionally acid house quite quietly and also shows the football

I would go there

i dont really know enough about this oto world to pass comment tbh
 

luka

Well-known member
i was saying to Barty the other day its weird to me i never hear jungle out and about. rap from the same period you do hear from time to time in pubs and that. Nas or Wu. Never jungle.
 

luka

Well-known member
you never even hear jungle coming out of cars. its a huge part of the history of the city but its got no presence here at all. the sun comes out and garage is everywhere, jungle, never ever, nowhere, at no time
 
Driving round London is too fragmented these days, i hate listening to jungle in that environment, its an added layer of stress

You used to hear a fair bit in the outer counties but that seems to have ebbed away as well
 

john eden

male pale and stale
"So we have here what looks at first like a contradiction but is actually a sign that we have left the Holy Temple of settled abstractions - also known as class society- and entered what what Gilles Deleuze called 'the polyvocal real' but never had the Leninist stamina to penetrate himself."
Yes that was a good bit. Mexican wave!
 

john eden

male pale and stale
You do get incursions of the rowdier stuff at OTO, usually though bonkers performance art. But Watson last night also and Hugh Metcalfe recently too.

I never went to the Red Rose or the Klinker or any of that and of course OTO is a different sort of venue to them, because it exists at a different time in London's development. And it has its own type of curation too for sure, but I think the sanitisation has been overstated as a particularly OTO issue.

For example the Vortex, which was a bastion of a type of free improv when it was on Stoke Newington Church Street in the 90s, is now indescriably dull, judging by the programme.
 
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