version

Who loves ya, baby?
Xi seems to be making a concerted effort to expand his influence, particularly given the vacuum left by Trump's isolationist rhetoric and posturing and the perceived weakness of Western democracy. Apparently the CCP are looking to export the Chinese political system around the world and are now hosting regular summits in order to groom potential allies, particularly in Africa.
 
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john eden

male pale and stale
I remember this article on how Obama dumped the middle east in favour of China as being very good:
https://libcom.org/library/obamas-pivot-china

The expats I talked to in Uganda said that there was a fair amount of the government playing western governments off against China - one of the issues being democracy, another being human rights.
 

yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
How ZTE helps Venezuela create China-style social control - https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/venezuela-zte/

Chinese telecoms giant ZTE is helping Venezuela build a system that monitors citizen behavior through a new identification card. The "fatherland card," already used by the government to track voting, worries many in Venezuela and beyond...

Maduro is also taking steps to force the card’s adoption. The government now says Venezuelans need it to receive public benefits including medicine, pensions, food baskets and subsidized fuel. In August, retirees protested outside social security offices and complained the fatherland rule limits access to hard-won pensions.

Benito Urrea, a 76-year-old diabetic, told Reuters a state doctor recently denied him an insulin prescription and called him “right wing” because he hasn’t enrolled. Like some other Venezuelan citizens, especially those who oppose the Maduro administration, Urrea sees the card with suspicion. “It was an attempt to control me via my needs,” he said in his Caracas apartment.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/16/chinas-orwellian-social-credit-score-isnt-real/

all that black mirror kinda stuff on china is just hypocritical
 

version

Who loves ya, baby?
Yeah, I read this the other day. It's interesting but the headline's a tad misleading, they debunked the idea of a unified social credit system then confirmed that there are several smaller ones in operation across various industries and areas which isn't really much better, especially when you consider the stuff like the ban on certain beards in Xinjiang, the forced reeducation camps, the amount of data being hoovered up and what they're doing in Venezeula.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
This is pretty ridiculous, if true.

As China Hacked, U.S. Businesses Turned A Blind Eye - https://www.npr.org/2019/04/12/711779130/as-china-hacked-u-s-businesses-turned-a-blind-eye

Technology theft and other unfair business practices originating from China are costing the American economy more than $57 billion a year, White House officials believe, and they expect that figure to grow.

Yet an investigation by NPR and the PBS television show Frontline into why three successive administrations failed to stop cyberhacking from China found an unlikely obstacle for the government — the victims themselves.


In dozens of interviews with U.S. government and business representatives, officials involved in commerce with China said hacking and theft were an open secret for almost two decades, allowed to quietly continue because U.S. companies had too much money at stake to make waves.
I wonder how much of this is direct and how much is via third countries? An Israeli speciality for years has been reverse-engineering tech from the USA - particularly military gear, obviously - and selling the secrets on to the Chinese.

Maybe the article address this, will have a read later.
 

zhao

there are no accidents
Beards and Burqas are not and have never been part of Uyghur tradition, and entirely come from foreign extremist elements. Banning these forms is entirely justified, because it is Islamic fundamentalism, backed by CIA as part of destabilisation campaigns to create conflict, exactly as has happened in Syria, Libya, Ukraine, etc., etc., etc., which is the real threat to Uyghur culture and the safety of everyone.

10 of the 55 ethnic minority groups in China are Muslim, and none of the other groups, some which such as the Hui, are larger than Uyghur, are being allegedly "oppressed".

"1 million detained" out of 10 million total Uyghur population in Xin Jiang means more than half of adult males, which is simply not possible, and an absurd allegation.

The UN never made this announcement. It was the "opinion" of 1 US representative, based on the admitted "guesses" of a “humanitarian watch group” called ”Chinese Human Rights Defenders" based in Washington. But unlike if a similar accusation is made of England or Germany, in which case evidence would be demanded, it is publicised by all major news networks without question.

What does exist, what China has never hidden, are several thousand sent to re-education camps for involvement with ISIS/DAESH. The allegations of detainees "forced to drink alcohol and eat pork", and "harsh conditions", all are not evidenced, and even if true, pale in comparison to what has been taking place in Guantanamo Bay and numerous US military sites around the world.

Uyghurs, just like the other 9 Muslim ethnic groups in China, are entirely free to conduct their religion, with active state protection of their culture. The vast majority of uyghurs are perfectly happy to be part of China, especially with recent drastic rises in standard of living and wages. It is only a tiny percentage of extremists in Xin Jiang who have ties to Daesh and funded by US interest groups who are fundamentalist and agitating for independence.

And we should remember, there is zero evidence of any human rights violations, and all of this is taking place on Chinese sovereign soil, unlike the “War on Terror” the US conducts around the world, for which very much evidence of human rights violations exist.

https://grayzoneproject.com/2018/08/23/un-did-not-report-china-internment-camps-uighur-muslims/

If China Is Anti-Islam, Why Are These Chinese Muslims Enjoying a Faith Revival?
Beijing bans some Muslims from observing Ramadan, or boarding public transport while veiled, but it allows millions of others to practice their religion without hindrance ––– An article published before Washington declared China “Enemy Number 1”, and before the acceleration of anti-China propaganda.

http://time.com/3099950/china-muslim-hui-xinjiang-uighur-islam/

EU rejects China’s offer of Xinjiang tour

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dip...s-offer-xinjiang-tour-says-its-open-one-later

Chinese oppression of Muslims is pure propaganda, from people who have been bombing and literally mass killing Muslims for many decades.

https://journal-neo.org/2015/11/10/chinas-xinjiang-problem-made-in-usa/

https://21stcenturywire.com/2018/12/14/the-truth-behind-chinas-uyghur-problem/

You know what there is evidence of? 3,500 Uighurs given Turkish passports, and fighting alongside Jibhat Al Nusra in Syria.

https://21stcenturywire.com/2018/09/26/from-idlib-to-xinjiang-uyghur-fighters-trained-for-terror/

Islamic fundamentalism is a real threat to Uyghur and Han alike:

https://ctc.usma.edu/the-seventh-stage-of-terrorism-in-china/

https://www.voanews.com/a/analysts-uighur-jihadi-group-in-syria-could-pose-threat/4702665.html

You know what else there is evidence of? $70 billion for infrastructure development in Xinjiang; the CCP actively alleviating poverty, improving life conditions, and combating inequality in the region:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201801/07/WS5a51bf96a31008cf16da58c5.html

Xinjiang lifts over 500,000 out of poverty in 2018

http://xhnewsapi.zhongguowangshi.com/share/news?id=263196721786880

China’s Uyghur Problem — The Unmentioned Part

https://journal-neo.org/2018/10/05/china-s-uyghur-problem-the-unmentioned-part/

China bans anti-Islam words on social media

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1067405.shtml

And from a man who has clearly always deeply cared about and championed the interests of Muslims:
Donald Trump presses allies to confront China over Uighur rights

https://www.ft.com/content/fdceb126-5354-11e9-91f9-b6515a54c5b1
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
The Chinese social harmony system mainly targets businesses, much like on Yelp. For individuals, the system replaces the debt-based credit of the West with the promotion of pro-social behaviour.

It is truly democratic, and can be used by anyone to report instances of classism, sexism, racism, corruption in the work place, slimy bosses, abuses of power by officials, all kinds of misconduct and social injustice. It can be used by the poorest person to report the richest. It does impede freedom: the freedom to abuse service workers, to throw weight around, to be an asshole.

Compare this to the credit rating system in the West which disproportionally benefits the rich and punishes the poor, which only counts how much money people have in the bank.

Many of these people disallowed travel have behaved badly while abroad: I only wish countries like England would reel back their drunken hooligans who puke outside my building at 5am after shouting and singing in the streets all night.

Here is some actual information about what this system is, and how it works. Pages from official policy cited and explained:

https://twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/975537101729968128

And crucially: What Westerners imagine is what this system would mean here in the West, failing to take into account what it means in a profoundly different society, with a profoundly different political structure.

Everything in China is controlled by a government which prioritises the well being of people instead of corporate profit. The Chinese Communist Party represents the interests of the majority, unlike capitalist governments which represents the interests of a tiny minority of financial elites.

Majority of Chinese citizens support it, according to this study by Frei University Berlin, and last I checked, that is the actual meaning of democracy:

https://www.fu-berlin.de/en/presse/...98-studie-sozialkreditsystem-china/index.html

And if that isn’t enough, here is Bloomberg reluctantly admitting it too:

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...ocial-credit-systems-are-surprisingly-popular

Here is even WaPo with a more balanced view:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/theworldpost/wp/2018/11/29/social-credit/?utm_term=.c8db9f1ed51b
 

yyaldrin

in je ogen waait de wind
a million is a staggering number. imagine the logistics for such a thing. shouldn't be too hard to come up with satellite images or photo's. they were able to show us iraq's weapons of mass destruction so why not show us these camps?
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
I'm not really interested in having that conversation because you've obviously already made your mind up that it's all a CIA psy-ops job and are only rhetorically asking for evidence that you're going to dismiss out of hand.

Your reference to the Iraq/WMDs issue makes me wonder if you think the USA is seriously countenancing a military attack on China.

Edit: but since you asked https://www.google.com/search?q=uyg...hX7SBUIHa7lBX8Q_AUoAXoECAwQAQ&biw=360&bih=512
 
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zhao

there are no accidents
Of course the likes of John Bolton, Mike Pompeo, and Trump are exactly preparing the psychological ground for expansion of the war against China beyond trade. One does not have to look hard to notice.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Of course the likes of John Bolton, Mike Pompeo, and Trump are exactly preparing the psychological ground for expansion of the war against China beyond trade. One does not have to look hard to notice.
You really are quite mad, aren't you?
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Clever of John Bolton to co-opt Amnesty International. I wonder how he managed that?

Actually this thread has been quite useful because it's finally prompted you to really cut loose and show your true colours. After a good decade of screaming at many people here for their "Islamophobia", sympathetic posts about Islamist terrorism and so on, it's now clear that you don't give and never have given a shit about Muslims in Palestine, Iraq or anywhere else. The main thing for you was always your own Oedipal rage against "the West".
 

Leo

Well-known member
Zhao and Tea. it's like a classic rock radio station, replaying the hits from the past. you know ahead of time pretty much exactly what yr gonna get.
 

Mr. Tea

Shub-Niggurath, Please
Zhao and Tea. it's like a classic rock radio station, replaying the hits from the past. you know ahead of time pretty much exactly what yr gonna get.
Oh I dunno, Leo. This is zhao on his comeback tour, he's the only original member still left in the band and is trying out some risky new material!
 

zhao

there are no accidents
I bring facts, backed by sources, many of which Western and liberal, on the topic of Xin Jiang.

Others immediately make empty statements and launch into ad hominem.

The state department is actively using disinformation to turn Western liberals and left against China for good reasons: part of the campaign to prepare for war beyond trade. If the anti-war liberals and left are against China, so much easier to push through the war agenda.

Same thing with Russophobia, and especially in Britain. Here is me dismantling some very popular liberal demonisation talking points which an English friend of mine was just spewing:

1. The extreme inequality in Russia is entirely or almost entirely due to the neo-liberal privatisation of national industries, factories sold for pennies, during the collapse. Putin came to power after this process had unfolded.

2. "The richest man on Earth" is exactly what people also said about Castro, and a number of figures that Western capitalists want to demonise. To date no evidence to back up these claims exist, of either men.

3. The homophobia, sexism, and rampant regression in Russia are part of rising rightist populisms, reactions against the neo-liberal order, and its attendant extreme inequality, exactly the same as the rise of these elements in other places such as Sweden, Norway, England, German, or the USA. Rather unrealistic to blame it on Putin.

4. Currently, there is quite a bit of militarist chest beating which accompanies the final fall of the British empire. There has been some quite bold statements made about "exerting military domination" in certain parts of the world, and lots of beating of war drums. Along with the wild, WILD accusations of spies poisoning, there is an accelerated and intensified effort to demonise Russia (as well as China).
 

zhao

there are no accidents
But thanks for reminding me of why I don't visit this place anymore: people who don't care at all about facts or rational debate, but just want to hammer their ignorant and self righteous biases.
 
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