mixed_biscuits
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Reference?
Russia Surrounded
- Thread starter Woebot
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- craner boobs disco dasha nekrasova good old obsessive antiamericanism gullfire over leningrad j. h. prynne jamaican voodoo gang from predator 2 my indian mate in year 11 with downs syndrome oliver ukrainer sanctuary of apollo shaka's secret mission snake island the black sea the good old party spirit of desert storm the russo-ucranerian war wagner man falling out of the sky we're all neocons now whatabouastic whataboutery whataboutish whataboutism whataboutistic who controls the serpent
mixed_biscuits
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Think of 'Antifa' targets...
shakahislop
Well-known member
i know this is a touchy subject, and rightly so, and maybe in a couple of weeks this post is going to look very naïve, but this in the guardian last night struck me as a particularly evidence-free article that makes some big claims (about the scale of sexual violence). i'm not saying that i don't believe this is happening, but i mean more that there is something that happens when the west decides to support one side in a conflict, where stuff gets reported in a way that suits our side and our beliefs
www.theguardian.com
Rape as a weapon: huge scale of sexual violence inflicted in Ukraine emerges
Women and girls have recounted the abuse they have suffered at the hands of Russian soldiers
www.theguardian.com
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
The 'antifa' you're thinking of is almost entirely a far-right bogeyman.
shakahislop
Well-known member
i'm burned from the afghanistan experience obviously. i know this puts me into the realm of a load of dicks on the internet, who i think also sometimes use this example, but i distinctly remember seeing this in a newspaper in 2001. it was totally untrue, but there was something about the atmosphere of the moment after 9/11 where all kinds of people, from the people in charge at the MoD to the respectable media to the general public, ended up believing a whole load of stuff which was totally wrong. and the consequences of that were pretty horrendous. the thing with russia at the moment really reminds me of that.
mixed_biscuits
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It doesn't exist?
mixed_biscuits
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Well, it does mention rape from both sidesi know this is a touchy subject, and rightly so, and maybe in a couple of weeks this post is going to look very naïve, but this in the guardian last night struck me as a particularly evidence-free article that makes some big claims (about the scale of sexual violence). i'm not saying that i don't believe this is happening, but i mean more that there is something that happens when the west decides to support one side in a conflict, where stuff gets reported in a way that suits our side and our beliefs
Rape as a weapon: huge scale of sexual violence inflicted in Ukraine emerges
Women and girls have recounted the abuse they have suffered at the hands of Russian soldiers
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
There are some gruesome details in this piece from HRW.
Ukraine: Apparent War Crimes in Russia-Controlled Areas
Human Rights Watch has documented several cases of Russian military forces committing laws-of-war violations against civilians in occupied areas of the Chernihiv, Kharkiv, and Kyiv regions of Ukraine.
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
Not in the way they think it does, no.
E.g. blaming "antifa provocateurs" for all manner of violence committed by far-right militants themselves, such as the events of last January in DC.
mixed_biscuits
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Look at what antifa say themselves...
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
What, like "OK, fair do's, we totally stormed the Capitol while pretending to be fashy nutjobs"? 🤪
shakahislop
Well-known member
this is kind of what i mean about amplification. that report talks about one specific rape. i have no doubt at all that this happened and these are real crimes, horrible shit. and HRW do the right thing, they are careful with evidence, from what i've seen (am no expert), and they collect this kind of testimony. with the guardian piece above, it's the references to 'huge scale' and 'rape as a weapon' that seem an overstatement. well. i might be totally wrong and the truth will be horrific, maybe the guardian guys are pretty sure about this and have to be a bit careful about revealing their sources, maybe there are a million things going on behind the scenes.There are some gruesome details in this piece from HRW.
Ukraine: Apparent War Crimes in Russia-Controlled Areas
Human Rights Watch has documented several cases of Russian military forces committing laws-of-war violations against civilians in occupied areas of the Chernihiv, Kharkiv, and Kyiv regions of Ukraine.www.hrw.org
mixed_biscuits
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Antifa were around before then, you know
shakahislop
Well-known member
it's not a hill i want to die on, but it's obviously an ongoing reaction for me, that it feels like this whole thing is being mediated in a way which will move western publics towards getting involved in overseas wars (well specifically this one)
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I'm more inclined to use an inductive approach and say "What tends to happen to women in areas that have been occupied by Russian soldiers?"
It's not like they haven't got form for this, and then some.
Rape during the occupation of Germany - Wikipedia
Rape during the Soviet occupation of Poland - Wikipedia
You could say it's a tradition.
mixed_biscuits
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I mean, given the general tenor of what Russia are doing, that sort of thing would be totally out of keeping 🤪
Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
I feel like, just for a change, you're deliberately misunderstanding me.
The point is that they've been accused (both by far-right people themselves and by, ahem, cough, "mainstream" right-wing entities such as Fox News) of various "false flag" attacks to pin blame on far-right groups, when there is no evidence that anyone other than far-right activists were involved.
mixed_biscuits
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So they're actually not anti-right wing?
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Mr. Tea
Let's Talk About Ceps
That's not even a sentence.
