This or That.

luka

Well-known member
http://www3.dbu.edu/mitchell/yeatshis.htm

Is there a theory of musical history?

I wondered if yeats's theory might be applied, but since it works in 2000 year cycles it's probably not applicable to the last thirty years of musical evolution.

Do we believe that the 'pendulum' effect in musical fashion reflects a sort of need for balancing the polarities? Or, if it IS driven by 'our' taste, is it simply a lust for novelty, and contempt for the familiar? Or is it just a way for corporations to sell new products?

great question. it's what im writing about in my notebook now. i'll type it up in a second. but in the meantime keep going, dont stop thinking, one thought leads to another keep following the trail of breadcrumbs.
 

CORP$EY

no mickey mouse ting
e.g. Baroque music reflects the Enlightenment values of European society at the time - intricacy of pattern, ordered and reasonable, mathematical (but spiritual)
 

luka

Well-known member
e.g. Baroque music reflects the Enlightenment values of European society at the time - intricacy of pattern, ordered and reasonable, mathematical (but spiritual)

exactly! and now what does that exclude? as a picture of the universe it's incomplete. by excluding some elements they can create miacles but becasue it excludes it's always in danger of toppling when you introduce the excluded element. return of the repressed.
 

luka

Well-known member
the problem i have with yeat's model is that it feels like a closed universe. a kind of clockwork universe. you need to allow for the miracle. you need to allow for the birth of the new. you need to allow for the messiah.
 

luka

Well-known member
Not because A, B, C, D not because POLITICS, ECONOMICS, CULTURE, TECHNOLOGY.
A, B, C, D are not the cause.
A, B, C, D are the grass which makes wind visible.

Which way is the wind blowing? Watch the grass.

Happens because happening is what happens. Do I make myself clear? Below the surface manifestations, a current which can be seen in all things it moves through.

This is the basis for all divination.
 

luka

Well-known member
but what we are seeing now is not the swing to one pole or another but the collapsing of those two poles into one
it's why the alt-right are up in arms. clinging on to the vestiges of the old system
 

luka

Well-known member
think now in terms of music for a developmental stage. my boy lollipop. it's primary school. it's pre-pubertal. My-Boy-Lol-li-pop
1-2/1-2-3
the patterns you're asking the body to internalise and commit to memory are very simple.

and if you map those patterns and movements onto the interpersonal level by making the patterns so straightforward you make it easy for 2 people to move in tandem without falling out of sync. but note it's a mirroring. it's not a pattern of will and surrender or any kind of dialogue.

now imagine a society in which all the music was like that, stuck at that developmental level - and then you suddenly introduce the busy signal! you've just leapt forward from primary school to adulthood. the patterns are more difficult for the body to learn and exponentially more difficult for two bodys to negotiate together.

you can picture a society of lollipops as one of arrested development. refusing the passage of time. wanting to stay infantile and the dark side of this. lollipop/lolita. the adult in the childs world.
Et in Arcadia ego.

you have this predatory shadow looming over this world. adulthood.

and for that generation adulthood meant war. when people can't find a way to move in sync you have violence. the gears stick.
so hence the desire to keep the rhythms simple and child-like, as we stay in sync, in harmony, together.
 

luka

Well-known member
so by the time you get to the busy signal you have this huge confidence that 2 bodies can master this quite tricky pattern of movement and stay in sync. we are adults now, in full command of our bodies and their range of movement. and of course, youve closed the distance, as i mentioned last night, the movements of the dance imposed by My Boy Lollipop preclude two bodies from holding one another. a space between is insisted upon.

so this feels safe right? let's stay here. you can feel a whole culture wanting to arrest itself, scared of what comes next. refusing the pleasures and dangers of adulthood.

and you watch the video of My Boy Lollipop i posted. the short hair. the boyish suit. so again, it's pre-pubertal, it's before gender roles pull us apart.
 

luka

Well-known member
and of course the rigid demarcation of gender is also a developmental stage. assigning roles. you do this, i do that. so there are expectations. it simplifies and clarifies. and this is the stage we are currently moving beyond. the free play of forces doesn't respect these borders.
 

CORP$EY

no mickey mouse ting
why do you weep and grieve so sorely when you hear
the fate of the Argives, hear the fall of Troy?
That is the gods' work, spinning threads of death
through the lives of mortal men,
and all to make a song for those who come...
 

Corpsey

bandz ahoy
I recognise that adds nothing but I like the idea of the gods spinning tragedy to create a song that survivors can sing
 

luka

Well-known member
'transcendence' is the white light and the cut-out point. learn to ask always for more.

Before the light which extinguishes all in its ravening incandescence. Before the point of ultimate surrender-/-the point of ultimate information.
The trick then/to hold off/to prolong the point/at which it consumes itself in white light. to always ask for more.
 

CORP$EY

no mickey mouse ting
Giambattista Vico (1668-1744), Neapolitan philosopher, and author of Principi di Scienza Nuova ("The New Science"), in which he developed a cyclic theory of history.

The Viconian cycle consists of three recurring phases:

(1) the Theocratic or Divine Age of gods, represented in primitive society by the family life of the cave, to which the voice of God (thunder) has driven mankind;
(2)the Aristocratic or Heroic Age of heroes, charactized by incessant conflict between the ruling patricians and their subject plebeians;
(3) the Democratic Age of people, in which rank and privilege have finally been eradicated by the revolutions of the preceding age.

These three ages are typified by the institutions of birth, marriage and burial respectively.

In Vico, they are followed by a short period of chaos caused by the collapse of democratric society, which is inherently corrupt. Out of this chaos a new cycle in initiated by the ricorso, or "return", to the Theocratic Age.
 

CORP$EY

no mickey mouse ting
Loftier thoughts aside what resonates about this thread is how music is written about as a mental experience not a physical experience, or relating to physicality at all, actually

i wanted to demonstrate this by quoting a random review from resident advisor, but the review i picked (the first i came across) is so utterly dreary that I don't think it's much use for demonstrating ANYTHING...

[
I]Blending trancey melodies with rolling grooves, the EP skews towards the dance floor and is better off for it. Housier than George FitzGerald and less in-your-face than Stephan Bodzin's neo-trance, it's a record for those who enjoy more subtle big-room music.[/I]

The "Open Up" version of "Miracle" is the EP's best tune. We've heard this spacey synth arpeggio on dozens of tracks before, but it sounds especially nice here, snaking atop a tribalist drum pattern and chords that move across a few octaves. There's an energy boost after the main breakdown but the smooth mood remains, helped by the sparing use of vocals. "Tempting" targets the same sound with more trancey melodies and a simple and steady rhythm...
 
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CORP$EY

no mickey mouse ting
btw I don't want to throw shade on a writer here, i'm sure i'm guilty of using all those cliches in my own reviews

worth compiling them in another thread perhaps?
 

CORP$EY

no mickey mouse ting
i wonder, also, if the very conventionality of that review is fitting, and expressive of the conventionality of what's BEING reviewed?

you can use shorthand like 'rolling grooves' because people - not me, admittedly - know what that is

you're providing DJs with a sort of product description. it's a sort of press release, shaded with mild opinions.
 

CORP$EY

no mickey mouse ting
the next review along (andrew ryce) is better, and arguably because it gets more physical (also noting the reappearance of that word 'snaky')

'In the wrong hands a track like "Get In Circle," built around a snaky woodwind instrument, might sound contrived, but Plead cuts the riff as masterfully as a classic house organ vamp. He programs percussion in patterns that seem abstract but come off intuitively funky. "Giz" is stark yet powerful thanks to its double-kick pattern and a two-note bassline that lands like a shove, while "M11" has the floor-shaking heft of trap without the clichéd hi-hats. Moments like these, where DJ Plead alters the fundamentals of dance music subgenres, are especially impressive. Just listen to "DVE," a complex hub of jiggling drum beats, careful shakers and nervous synths that percolates for a whole two minutes before the drop finally lands. When it does, it's more of a snap than a seismic shift. DJ Plead's tracks are too confident and sleek for anything so heavy-handed.'
 
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